Realtime Nick Name Ticker of #debian at freenode (ICQ IRC service)

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4[00:03:33] <crestfallen> any help with that minor issue above, the cursor sticking in hand/grab mode? thanks
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9[00:08:49] <nvz> crestfallen: in xorg?
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13[00:12:12] <kali_> Hello
14[00:13:02] <nvz> kali_: if you are using kali linux, this is not a channel for kali support
15[00:13:20] <kali_> ok thanks
16[00:13:29] <nvz> !kali
17[00:13:29] <dpkg> Kali Linux (replaced-url
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21[00:16:06] <crestfallen> nvz, yeah thanks for responding.
22[00:16:29] <nvz> crestfallen: perhaps an XF86Ungrab would make it respond
23[00:16:31] <crestfallen> its default gnome
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26[00:17:11] <crestfallen> I guess gnome and xorg are integrated nvz ?
27[00:17:21] <nvz> not necessarily
28[00:17:46] <nvz> I find the modern Gnome disgusting so I dont know much about it but its one of few DE that can operate in wayland afaik
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32[00:18:40] <crestfallen> on install I just chose gnome and use the default desktop and chromium mostly.. aside from the terminal. what is XF86Ungrab, is that a command nvz ?
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35[00:18:54] <nvz> its a keysym
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37[00:19:06] <nvz> xdotool key XF86Ungrab
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40[00:19:11] <nvz> ,i xdotool
41[00:19:12] <judd> Package xdotool (x11, optional) in buster/amd64: simulate (generate) X11 keyboard/mouse input events. Version: 1:3.20160805.1-4; Size: 53.7k; Installed: 122k; Homepage: replaced-url
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46[00:19:47] <nvz> it should cause the server to release all keyboard/mouse input devices which may solve your issue
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49[00:20:00] <crestfallen> thanks I'll try that command nvz
50[00:20:05] <nvz> its also possible you just have a theme applied which uses that kind of cursor
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55[00:20:30] <crestfallen> no it started suddently, actually on 2 systems with debian 10 gnome
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59[00:20:42] <crestfallen> 2 machines
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73[00:22:33] <crestfallen> I installed then ran your Ungrab command . see how it goes. thanks nvz
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77[00:23:19] <nvz> o.O
78[00:23:21] <nyov> :P
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81[00:24:01] <nvz> nyov: that moment when you are sure you haven't been told everything, or have been misunderstood..
82[00:24:15] <nyov> "damn those irc wankers. they all lie!!!"
83[00:24:26] <nyov> won't go very well I think
84[00:24:37] <nvz> nyov: "Everybody lies" - Gregory House M.D.
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87[00:25:22] <nvz> of course House also said "The truth begins in lies"
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92[00:25:58] <nyov> just imagining the reaction s/he will have when it doesn't help
93[00:27:15] <nvz> if the issue is due to the fact that the mouse/keyboard cursor is grabbed, it'll either immediately release it, or won't do anything.. heh.. its not something you "see how it goes"
94[00:27:30] <nvz> especially when you imply you've already ran the command
95[00:27:30] <nyov> indeed
96[00:27:53] <nyov> they obviously thought it was a magic fix for the future, though
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98[00:29:22] <nvz> it does nothing more than simulate a keypress.. a keypress equivalent to Ctrl+Alt+KP/
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101[00:29:52] <nvz> but I am not certain that keystroke/keysym are actually bound.. hence the use of a tool that simulates the actual keysym
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111[00:34:42] <nyov> I especially liked that *whoosh* sound as he left. kthxbye
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170[01:29:11] <generic> is there something like tmux only with support for gpm ?
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256[03:06:28] <openface> how can i set UTC to local
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259[03:06:59] <openface> /etc ?
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263[03:08:05] <dvs> !utc
264[03:08:05] <dpkg> Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) is the standard by which the world regulates clocks and time (replaced-url
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284[03:17:59] <aypea[0]> anyone know of a cli utility that'll give me machine-parseable info about a certificate? neither openssl nor gnutls appear to cut it (unless I missed something).
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356[04:38:34] <tripkin> aypea[0]: when you say machine-parseable, what is it you are looking for? openssl will give it to you in a human readable form, but that does not sound like what you want.
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420[05:52:32] <generic> can sb tell me why 'nft add rule filter input log' doesn't work ?
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555[07:50:53] <ayekat> generic: what's the output of `nft list table inet filter`?
556[07:51:07] <ayekat> perhaps the thing you want to log is already matched by an earlier rule
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610[08:44:57] <deadmarshal> hi, where should i put gpg keys? this website gives a lot of gpg keys but i don't know where to put them. debgen.simplylinux.ch
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613[08:47:03] <jm_> first of all, be careful about using 3rd party repositories, and second, it gives you the command to import the keys, i.e. apt-key, which puts it in the right place
614[08:48:27] <deadmarshal> so i can just paste them in terminal?
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616[08:49:27] <jm_> paste what, the commands? yes, but as I said, be extra careful
617[08:49:48] <deadmarshal> ok
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641[09:00:56] <u0_a198> why the netboot install report broken mirror if installation CD is used as mirror
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646[09:02:33] <u0_a198> HELLO
647[09:02:48] <petn-randall> u0_a198: I'm not aware that the netinst can use other CDs as source. But why not just use the installation CDs in the first place?
648[09:02:56] <jm_> netboot image only conatins some packages, not all
649[09:03:02] <petn-randall> u0_a198: Yes, we can read you, no need to yell.
650[09:03:11] <jm_> so it needs to download the rest from a mirror
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670[09:13:41] <n1c0de> Hello, when i'm working on my computer, the screen randomly turn to blank. I have to close the laptop to lock my session and reopen it. I don't find a topic like my problem.
671[09:13:41] <n1c0de> Is there a solution ?
672[09:13:41] <n1c0de> (Asus laptop + Debian 10 + gnome)
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677[09:15:24] <u0_a198> I mount the iso and use the apache server to sent it to the other machine but it told me broken mirror: invalid Suite or Codename in Release file ,someone known?
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680[09:16:13] <towo^work> n1c0de, "Asus Laptop" is saying nothing about the hardware
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689[09:19:00] <at0m> n1c0de: quick fix i did for such here, is Ctrl-Alt-F1 to tty then back Ctrl-Alt-F7 desktop
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694[09:20:15] <u0_a198> I mount the iso and use the apache server to sent it to the other machine but it told me broken mirror: invalid Suite or Codename in Release file ,someone known?
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696[09:21:19] <n1c0de> towo^work: replaced-url
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719[09:29:52] <n1c0de> at0m: It worked first time and after no
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721[09:30:51] <n1c0de> i can generate the problem by moving the screen
722[09:31:47] <n1c0de> it's like a bad manage of locking and screen
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728[09:34:37] <n1c0de> towo^work: I installed Nvidia drivers
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741[09:40:10] <jomofcw> Hello !
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747[09:41:36] <jomofcw> Not really a debian relative problem, but I try to ask here... let me know if it's out of topic. I use this to convert recursively files to UTF-8 : 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(find . -type f)'. It works... but it convert also binary file which make them "wrong". Is there a way to exclude binary files (image, PDF, ...), please ?
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775[09:58:00] <Ede|Popede> jomofcw: `file` and they all should have 'text' somewhere in the description field
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779[09:59:07] <Ede|Popede> jomofcw: /bin/setupcon looks like a good test case
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787[10:04:24] <jomofcw> Hello Ede|Popede ! Thanks I'll look at it. I've found replacing the find by "grep -r -I -l ." and it seems to work..
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805[10:17:50] <ce9a> hi
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807[10:17:55] <Brawcks> Hello there
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814[10:20:37] <Brawcks> Does anyone know how to export variable in makefile ? I'm trying to automate borg backup in a makefile, especially the fact that it ask me for the passphrase :
815[10:20:49] <Brawcks> replaced-url
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817[10:21:48] <Brawcks> When i do the "export" in cli, it's working. I guess make is working a bit differently
818[10:22:05] <jm_> you don't export it, you just set it -- info make 'Using Variables'
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820[10:22:56] <jm_> I think I misunderstood, you need to set it in env cause borg only checks there?
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823[10:23:08] <jm_> i.e. it's not passed via args
824[10:23:10] <Brawcks> Yes thats it
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826[10:23:16] <Brawcks> In user env
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829[10:24:36] <jm_> info page says When 'make' runs a recipe, variables defined in the makefile are placed into the environment of each shell. - easy to test, just run 'strings -a /proc/<pid>/environ' for your borg command
830[10:24:49] <jm_> so just try setting it and see if it works
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835[10:27:35] <Brawcks> Quite high level to me, i'll try it and see, brb
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837[10:27:48] <Brawcks> thanks for your support btw :-)
838[10:28:01] <jm_> no problem
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844[10:31:47] <Brawcks> I tried, u were right there is no BORG_PASSPHRASE in process env
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848[10:32:03] <jm_> I was saying it should be :)
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851[10:32:46] <Brawcks> My bad, i wrote too fast
852[10:32:52] <Brawcks> :')
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854[10:33:16] <jm_> I just tested and it's indeed not in env
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861[10:35:15] <Brawcks> Well, just starting to think it won't be possible this way
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866[10:36:49] <jm_> ok so foo = blabla\nexport foo works
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870[10:37:37] <jomofcw> I don't understand why this doesn't change the encoding of non binary files : 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(grep -r -I -l .)' when this 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(find . -type f)' change encoding of all files including binary... the first one give me this output : "2205 files to edit", but he edited none in fact :s...
871[10:38:01] <Brawcks> foo = blabla\nexport
872[10:38:10] <jm_> \n means a newline
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874[10:38:46] <Brawcks> Ok, so export without assignation
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876[10:38:49] <Haohmaru> another victim of escape chars
877[10:39:00] <jm_> right like in old shells
878[10:39:01] <Brawcks> I do not tried it, brb for victory lol
879[10:39:04] <vampirefrog> cool it with the \n bombs
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881[10:40:36] <jm_> jomofcw: start by comparing how vim is called in both cases
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883[10:40:51] <jomofcw> The only difference between grep output and find output is that grep gimme "replaced-url
884[10:40:55] <Brawcks> Still not working here :(
885[10:41:41] <jomofcw> jm_ hello ! I'm not sure to understand... to me it is called the same way in both case... nop ? That's the same user who called both of the syntax... same context.
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887[10:42:27] <jm_> jomofcw: inspect actual arguments it receives
888[10:42:46] <jm_> Brawcks: put your new makefile on pastebin, use the debian paste site
889[10:43:08] <jomofcw> I don't know how to do that :'( (others than what I just give on top of this about grep vs find output).
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893[10:45:24] <jm_> you can use ps or check /proc/<PID>/cmdline (note that arguments are separated by \0 in there)
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895[10:45:36] <jomofcw> jm_ are you talking about this : The only difference between grep output and find output is that grep gimme "replaced-url
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897[10:46:12] <Brawcks> jm_ : here it is replaced-url
898[10:46:16] <jm_> jomofcw: I am saying check if vim is called the same way
899[10:46:28] <jomofcw> OK
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903[10:47:40] <jm_> Brawcks: your issue might be related to doing it via ssh, i.e. check the environ file for the borg commands while they are running on the system where makefile is
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906[10:49:14] <jm_> Brawcks: if it looks OK, check if ssh's options for env will help (i.e. SendEnv in ssh_config(5), and AcceptEnv in sshd_config(5))
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909[10:50:54] <Brawcks> Ok, thanks :-)
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924[11:03:00] <tachikomas> Hello debian community. Seeing the number of custom packages build in my organisation, i would like to find a "automatic" way to build and release them when a new version is available upstream and keeping my changes. Any tool / recommendation on how to do that >
925[11:03:03] <tachikomas> ?
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941[11:07:29] <vampirefrog> tachikomas: safest way is to subscribe to their release feeds and have someone merge the code by hand, in case your patches break
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943[11:08:01] <vampirefrog> they usually have a way of notifying you about new releases
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948[11:08:55] <tachikomas> Yep. I would just like to avoid work where i can and have an automerge / test plateform and build if succeed.
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951[11:09:40] <vampirefrog> automerge is just normal git merge
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953[11:09:59] <ratrace> tachikomas: I wouldn't do it 100% automatically without reviewing changelogs. Changes happen that pass build and test automation but change run-time behavior, resulting in run-time breakage.
954[11:10:45] <tachikomas> ratrace: Sure :) i dont intend to run 100% automatically. but a good 80% would be amazing
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990[11:36:02] <jomofcw> jm_ sorry I was AFK. How can I get the PID of the command vim ? (yea, i'm a noob :D)
991[11:36:40] <Haohmaru> if you just wanna kill it you could "pkill vim"
992[11:37:26] <tachikomas> in generam pkill (name) or a kill -0 (PID)
993[11:37:28] <mijndert> jomofcw: ps | grep vim
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995[11:37:36] <tachikomas> kill -9 (pid)
996[11:38:10] <jomofcw> mijndert hello ! but while my vim command is running I "can't" call on other command... or i open another terminal, that's it ?
997[11:38:30] <jomofcw> Nop I need to look at the arguments details
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999[11:39:23] <at0m> jomofcw: open another terminal/console? or ctrl-alt-[1-6], usually
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1002[11:39:34] <mackerel449> I have an issue with docker.io on buster: "failed to register layer: Error processing tar file(exit status 1): archive/tar: invalid tar header", it's triggered by a script that runs `docker build ....`, it pulls from gcr.io and is specific to my install, i can't reproduce this on a fresh install, i tried purging everything, installing the third-party docker package
1003[11:39:39] <mijndert> jomofcw just open another console as at0m said
1004[11:39:45] <tachikomas> you could call a terminal within vim. Either pause vim with ctrl +z, or open a new console.
1005[11:39:45] <mijndert> beat me to it :)
1006[11:40:02] <at0m> jomofcw: or get used to using tmux/screen =)
1007[11:40:25] <at0m> tmux probably, if you're new to either
1008[11:40:40] <jomofcw> at0m yep i'm xD... OK thanks, I give it a try.
1009[11:40:42] <mijndert> I'm so used to screen, I can never get the hang of tmux...
1010[11:40:56] <tachikomas> I would argue that screen is cleaner but... thats a religious choice at that point :)
1011[11:41:08] <jm_> jomofcw: «strings -a /proc/$(pidof vim)/cmdline» might work
1012[11:41:08] <jomofcw> in another terminal it gimme nothing :s...
1013[11:41:20] <at0m> mijndert: same, for historical reasons
1014[11:41:27] <sponix> tachikomas: Kinda like we all know vim is superior to emacs
1015[11:41:51] <tachikomas> sponix: OFC. but we should never told *them*
1016[11:42:01] <jomofcw> what "ctrl-alt-[1-6]" is supposed to do ? performing it into my Putty session which is running the vim command does nothing.
1017[11:42:17] <at0m> jomofcw: oh. windows. i assumed linux.
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1019[11:42:23] <sponix> jomofcw: they thought you were on the rig itself
1020[11:42:25] <jomofcw> Sorry :s
1021[11:42:51] <at0m> jomofcw: then start another putty session
1022[11:43:10] <jomofcw> Done, and it gimme nothing about vim when i perform "ps"
1023[11:43:20] <jomofcw> I've just three lines
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1025[11:43:31] <jomofcw> 31711 pts/15 00:00:00 sudo
1026[11:43:31] <jomofcw> 31718 pts/15 00:00:00 ash
1027[11:43:31] <jomofcw> 31784 pts/15 00:00:00 ps
1028[11:43:34] <jomofcw> Sorry for flooding
1029[11:43:38] <jm_> you need to run it when you run your command
1030[11:43:54] <jomofcw> Yea it's what i've done (hopefully, the vim command takes minutes to run).
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1034[11:45:16] <jm_> check pstree output, maybe grep command is still running?
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1037[11:46:22] <tachikomas> jomofcw: use a ctrl + z
1038[11:46:31] <jomofcw> Nothing about grep in tree :'(.
1039[11:46:52] <tachikomas> then " sudo ps waux | grep vim "
1040[11:46:58] <jomofcw> tachikomas ctrl+z to do what, please ?
1041[11:47:03] <tachikomas> pause vim
1042[11:47:12] <tachikomas> and give you a terminal prompt
1043[11:47:31] <jomofcw> It doesn't :/ so, grep is probably running before I guess...
1044[11:47:43] <tachikomas> " sudo ps waux | grep vim " should vige you more than the 3 lines
1045[11:47:51] <tachikomas> that you had.
1046[11:48:01] <tachikomas> should give you.
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1054[11:51:43] <jomofcw> I got this : replaced-url
1055[11:51:48] <jomofcw> does it help ?
1056[11:51:58] <jomofcw> please.
1057[11:52:01] <mijndert> that's your PID
1058[11:52:13] <mijndert> 32247
1059[11:52:23] <jomofcw> 32247 ?
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1061[11:52:24] <jomofcw> Oh OK !
1062[11:52:30] <at0m> or, when one is sure there's only one instance running, killal vim
1063[11:52:36] <at0m> killall even
1064[11:52:46] <mijndert> the nuclear option :)
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1066[11:52:50] <at0m> ya
1067[11:53:03] *** Parts: murii (~murii@replaced-ip) ()
1068[11:54:56] <jomofcw> And here is what i get in cmdline : replaced-url
1069[11:55:14] <jomofcw> The problem is the fatc there isn't anymore space between "q" and the first path, nop ?
1070[11:55:46] <jomofcw> *fact
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1073[11:57:46] <apollo13> jomofcw: wouldn't have iconv been easier?
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1075[11:59:21] <jomofcw> apollo13 haven't found a solution using iconv while i don't know the origin encding of each file and being recursive ignoring binary :s.
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1077[11:59:31] <jomofcw> But I can have miss it.
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1080[12:00:29] <apollo13> something like -type f -exec file {} \; | grep text would give you text files, no?
1081[12:01:09] <apollo13> also if you don't know the origin encoding what is vim doing? it has to choose one encoding and I am pretty sure it doesn't guess when opening a file
1082[12:01:29] <apollo13> so you can make a buest guess and set it to some ISO-encoding which most likely suits you
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1087[12:02:10] <BCMM> i'm pretty sure it's impossible to reliably guess the encoding of a text file anyway
1088[12:02:14] <jomofcw> apollo13 dunno about vim and origin encoding :s when I execute it with find instead of grep it does the job on non binary files (with diferent origin encoding).
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1091[12:02:31] <BCMM> since text files frequently represent different valid data in different character sets
1092[12:02:31] <apollo13> BCMM: in general yes
1093[12:02:34] <jomofcw> And I don't want only text files, but all the non binary files.
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1095[12:02:46] <apollo13> BCMM: if you have a BOM and other markers you can be rather sure though
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1097[12:03:18] <apollo13> jomofcw: if you don't get the origin encoding right, the result will be garbage though
1098[12:03:57] <apollo13> that said, the origin encoding can depend on the context of the file, so garbage might be the best you will get anyways
1099[12:04:20] <apollo13> after all it is just opaque bytes, even the definition of "text" files is vague
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1103[12:04:41] <BCMM> apollo13: BOM is... complicated
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1105[12:05:21] <nyov> this might be helpful: file --mime-encoding -- *
1106[12:05:27] <BCMM> e.g. microsoft any many others think utf-8 text needs to start with a BOM, specs say it doesn't
1107[12:05:35] <BCMM> s/any/and/
1108[12:05:47] <jomofcw> nyov yup i've seen some us of it in some batch example.
1109[12:06:04] <mijndert> BCMM: Microsoft doesn't even know how to properly handle newlines
1110[12:06:35] <BCMM> mijndert: i heard windows 10 notepad might have been fixed
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1112[12:07:00] <mijndert> BCMM: lol, should be a headlining feature for windows 10 imo
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1114[12:07:49] <jomofcw> This is probably incomplete but i know that 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(find . -type f)' work as it changed the files encoding to the correct one, but it rewrite also binary files that make them wrong. 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(grep -r -I -l .)' may be OK, but it doesn't write anything as result.
1115[12:08:13] <BCMM> mijndert: yeah, the ads should just be "Windows 10: Now you don't have to start all your config files with # DO NOT SAVE WITH NOTEPAD"
1116[12:08:51] <apollo13> BCMM: well utf-8 bom makes no sense
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1119[12:09:00] <apollo13> there is one defined but it is not really useful anyways
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1121[12:09:02] <BCMM> apollo13: sure, but it's also really common
1122[12:09:26] <apollo13> BCMM: yes, which is okayish. if a known BOM is there it is a good indicator about the file encoding
1123[12:09:33] <apollo13> if it's not, well you can guess…
1124[12:09:38] <BCMM> a good indicator of *what* though?
1125[12:09:50] <apollo13> of the encoding in question
1126[12:09:51] <BCMM> "it's probably utf but god knows what sort"?
1127[12:09:57] <apollo13> bom is different for utf-8, utf-16, utf-32
1128[12:09:58] <apollo13> afaiks
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1130[12:10:05] <mijndert> BCMM: hahaha
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1132[12:10:37] <BCMM> (also the string of bytes that represent the BOM might be potentially meaningful in some non-UTF encodings)
1133[12:10:38] <apollo13> BCMM: replaced-url
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1135[12:10:58] <apollo13> yes it can also be part of any binary file ;)
1136[12:11:04] <apollo13> but if guessing is all you have
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1138[12:11:07] <jomofcw> ... and about my problem (that lead you to this encoding debat :p) :x ?
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1140[12:11:22] <apollo13> there is for instance replaced-url
1141[12:11:40] <BCMM> but yeah, fair enough, there are a *lot* of heuristics that mean something is *probably* in a given encoding
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1143[12:11:54] <BCMM> but they can and do fail fairly often
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1145[12:11:57] <apollo13> anyways, gotta run, have fan
1146[12:12:06] <apollo13> oh yes, they are only useful if you have some context around
1147[12:12:13] <BCMM> also there are some that are horrible to distinguish, e.g. plain ascii vs (BOMless) utf-8
1148[12:12:59] <BCMM> where it's really easy to have something that's ascii for the first few hundred bytes but has accents or something later
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1505[12:14:15] *** skittle_ is now known as skittle
1506[12:14:24] <BCMM> i wonder if there is any software that can automatically interpret text as several different encodings, feed all the results to spellchecker, and then use whatever encoding upsets the spellchecker least
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1508[12:14:39] <mijndert> nice, netsplit
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1510[12:15:04] <BCMM> woah, just like the good(?) old days
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1515[12:16:39] <Haohmaru> jelly is on teh other side -> iz iz PARTY TIEM \o/
1516[12:16:44] <Haohmaru> * i'm kidding
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1539[12:17:42] <jm_> the lack of space in your output is related to what I said before -- note that arguments are separated by \0 in there
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1600[12:18:05] <mijndert> that's it, I'm disabling join/part messages :')
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1903[12:18:39] <mijndert> Haohmaru: why
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1961[12:19:04] <Haohmaru> don't filter-out teh reality
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2129[12:19:26] <mijndert> I love filtering out reality, it's what gets me through the day
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2135[12:19:31] <nyov> who dug through the cable?
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2193[12:20:54] <Haohmaru> :/
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2231[12:21:48] <mijndert> time for lunch I guess, this netsplit nonesense will go on without me :')
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2273[12:22:50] <jomofcw> In previous episode, before split...
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2279[12:23:03] <jomofcw> This is probably incomplete but i know that 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(find . -type f)' work as it changed the files encoding to the correct one, but it rewrite also binary files that make them wrong. 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(grep -r -I -l .)' may be OK, but it doesn't write anything as result.
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2335[12:25:04] <empresses> I just installed npm and nodejs. How can my package.json be invalid?
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2349[12:26:17] <BCMM> empresses: what did you do, and what error message did you see?
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2364[12:27:42] <empresses> apt install nodejs npm && npm show # BCMM: "npm ERR! Invalid package.json"
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2366[12:28:05] <empresses> might have to run npm init, could be it. Is apparently a thing.
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2376[12:28:35] <jorijn> empresses why
2377[12:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1545
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2379[12:29:40] <empresses> jorijn: I don't know. I don't design the thing. Besides, they seem to have a SJW problem judging from the things I saw in their channel yesterday, that's usually related to weird design just to make it gender-neutral and stuff.
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2384[12:30:29] <empresses> I'd just make this dynamic since it's working dynamically without that package.json file anyway.
2385[12:32:08] <empresses> I see.. it's a forced community thing, you register your tumblr, git and stuff. I was right.
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2390[12:33:57] <jomofcw> In previous episode, before split...
2391[12:33:58] <jomofcw> This is probably incomplete but i know that 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(find . -type f)' work as it changed the files encoding to the correct one, but it rewrite also binary files that make them wrong. 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(grep -r -I -l .)' may be OK, but it doesn't write anything as result.
2392[12:34:39] <cluelessperson> hi there, what's the base font package in debian?
2393[12:34:49] <cluelessperson> it's obnoxiously hard to identify through google apparently.
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2395[12:36:32] <empresses> cluelessperson: I can only speak for other distros, but they come with a set of font packages as dependencies to other packages, not a "base package".
2396[12:36:41] <empresses> cluelessperson: do you need a particular font?
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2398[12:38:04] <empresses> cluelessperson: since no package require asian fonts by default, chinese and emojis looks like squares in my browser. So I had to install a bunch of fonts manually without really knowing the difference between them. But that was archlinux.
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2400[12:38:18] <cluelessperson> empresses, debian I believe has a base metapackage that requires a set of other packages, as the base system.
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2406[12:42:14] <BCMM> debian has a few metapackages (starting task-) that you can optional install to get a reasonable out-of-box experience, but i'm pretty sure the absolute base system isn't done by metapackaging
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2410[12:43:33] <BCMM> it's done with "priority" - see replaced-url
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2413[12:45:37] <BCMM> cluelessperson: are you asking for a metapackage that will install all available fonts or something?
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2417[12:46:12] <BCMM> i mean, if there was a "base font package", what would you want it to do?
2418[12:46:29] <cluelessperson> BCMM, I'm using docker to run a java application with a gui, and it requires a font package, I'm not sure which
2419[12:46:40] <cluelessperson> presumably just something basic, but I'm uncertain which.
2420[12:46:48] <BCMM> cluelessperson: how do you know it needs a font package?
2421[12:47:02] <cluelessperson> BCMM, ... install the font package that's a requirement of the base metapackage in debian?
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2423[12:47:07] <cluelessperson> BCMM, because it says so
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2425[12:47:27] <cluelessperson> there are no font files in the docker container
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2427[12:47:38] <BCMM> cluelessperson: is "install the font package that's a requirement of the base metapackage in debian" a message from your java app
2428[12:47:41] <BCMM> ?
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2431[12:48:17] <rephlexie> X has a core font pkg. fonts-base iirc
2432[12:48:47] <jm_> normally it would tell you exactly which font it's looking for
2433[12:48:58] <rephlexie> xfonts-base rather
2434[12:49:44] <BCMM> cluelessperson: perhaps you mean desktop-base, which pulls in fonts-quicksand?
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2438[12:51:46] <BCMM> cluelessperson: given that the "base metapackage" does not exist, you would be more likely to get useful help if you described what you actually want to do, rather than how you want to do it
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2441[12:52:30] <BCMM> the exact message with which the java app told you to install fonts would certainly help
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2445[12:53:19] <cluelessperson> BCMM, Are you being dense? There aren't any fonts installed in the docker container and the gui application is searching for them, presumably I just need to install a font package
2446[12:53:29] <cluelessperson> and I was going for whatever default packages are installed in debian, by default
2447[12:53:35] <ratrace> lol docker
2448[12:53:59] <mijndert> ratrace: don't be like that
2449[12:54:10] <cluelessperson> ratrace, I came to debian asking what the default font package was that's installed.
2450[12:54:11] <BCMM> cluelessperson: i am trying to correct a series of incorrect assumptions that are making your questions non-meaningul
2451[12:54:15] <BCMM> ^non-meaningful
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2453[12:54:23] <ratrace> like what. docker completely breaks the concept of "default installation" for any distro "dockerized"
2454[12:54:30] <jm_> makes no sense to provide a GUI app in a container without fonts it needs
2455[12:55:01] <cluelessperson> well, instead of answering my question and letting me discover that for myself, we're doing this
2456[12:55:13] <BCMM> cluelessperson: your questions *do not have answers*
2457[12:55:30] <cluelessperson> ... are you saying debian doesn't install fonts by default when you install it?
2458[12:55:46] <BCMM> cluelessperson: i'm asking what you mean by "by default"
2459[12:55:57] <cluelessperson> what do you think default means?
2460[12:56:03] <ratrace> cluelessperson: there's xfonts-base .. but ideall you should state which font you need and then isntall the package containing it
2461[12:56:07] <BCMM> there are certain fonts that are installed when you choose a standard desktop install
2462[12:56:10] <cluelessperson> when you install debian, there are fonts installed for you, by default.
2463[12:56:33] <cluelessperson> ratrace, I'm going to install that one. :P
2464[12:56:54] <ratrace> probably not what you want
2465[12:57:38] <BCMM> xfonts-base is arguably the most basic and indispensable font package, but the fonts it contains are in an ancient format nobody cares about any more
2466[12:58:01] <ratrace> indeed, bitmapped, wtih things like pango dropping support for bitmapped fonts
2467[12:58:40] <ratrace> personally I think fonts-liberation, fonts-noto and fonts-dejavu are the "base" one should always have installed.
2468[12:58:43] <BCMM> cluelessperson: try fonts-quicksand. it doesn't seem terribly likely that it's what your java app needs, but it *is* the font installed by desktop-base.
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2471[12:59:30] <BCMM> cluelessperson: i think at least some of the individual desktop environments have their own fonts too (starting to see why "by default" doesn't mean a lot in debian yet?)
2472[12:59:30] <ratrace> fonts-liberation at least contains metric-compatible fonts deemed.... "standard" ..... like Arial, Courier and Times New Roman
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2474[12:59:55] <ratrace> like three major groups of fonts are in there: sans-serif, serif, and mono (courier)
2475[13:00:05] <BCMM> i don't know why we can't have the error message or documentation that told cluelessperson to install fonts
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2477[13:00:21] <cluelessperson> java.io.IOException: Problem reading font data
2478[13:00:32] <BCMM> is that the entire message?
2479[13:00:33] <ratrace> that really doesn't say anything
2480[13:00:41] <cluelessperson> BCMM, no, but it's the most relevant bit.
2481[13:00:47] <cluelessperson> yeah, right?
2482[13:00:57] <BCMM> that sounds more like the font file it shipped with is corrupt than like it tried to read a font file that doesn't exist
2483[13:01:39] <cluelessperson> I'd guess the gui application just uses whatever font the os offers
2484[13:01:46] <cluelessperson> but I don't know, because this stuff isn't clear.
2485[13:02:06] <BCMM> cluelessperson: but this is all in a docker image, right?
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2487[13:02:17] <BCMM> a docker image you made yourself, or a pre-made one you downloaded?
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2489[13:02:53] <cluelessperson> one I've made myself.
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2491[13:03:15] <BCMM> if it *is* a missing font file, it sounds like this java application has an undocumented dependency...
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2493[13:03:30] <BCMM> are you prepared to say what application it is? is it open-source?
2494[13:03:41] <mijndert> How is some problem with a java app a debian problem
2495[13:03:53] <cluelessperson> mijndert, I was asking about a debian package originally.
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2498[13:04:27] <BCMM> mijndert: the original question appears to be something vaguely along the lines of "what's the default font in debian"
2499[13:04:37] <mijndert> it's comic sans
2500[13:04:45] <cluelessperson> default font package*
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2502[13:05:36] <cluelessperson> mijndert, why not tiny.ttf ?
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2504[13:06:23] <mijndert> cluelessperson: I don't know that font but that's amazing
2505[13:07:05] <BCMM> cluelessperson: the bit i still don't get is why you think the "default font package" contains the font your java app is looking for
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2507[13:07:19] <ratrace> cluelessperson: why don't simply install liberation, deja-vu and optionally noto (if you need smileys and utf8 gimmicks)
2508[13:07:27] <ratrace> there otherwise is no "default" font package
2509[13:07:50] <ratrace> like I said, liberation covers the metric-compatible faces like Arial, Times new roman and Courier. three major categories of fonts.
2510[13:08:05] <ratrace> oh also verdana
2511[13:08:11] <BCMM> it sounds like a developer or packager has assumed a specific font will always be available, but i don't see how you can know that a debian metapackage provides that font
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2514[13:09:33] <cluelessperson> mijndert, I have several pixel fonts. Made for LED displays or just wherever you want to make users use a magnifying glass. :P replaced-url
2515[13:10:01] <cluelessperson> tiny, tinier, and 6x2
2516[13:10:43] <cluelessperson> it'd be nice if I could see what font is being requested or file asked for
2517[13:10:48] <cluelessperson> unclear.
2518[13:10:51] <BCMM> i'm glad that certificate is 403 but still not entirely comfortable with it showing up in directory listings like that
2519[13:11:17] <jm_> there's are tools to trace X calls, alternatively if it's looking for a file strace will help
2520[13:11:26] <cluelessperson> BCMM, that's a public cert actually, supposed to be readable actually. :P
2521[13:11:40] <nirakara> hi. I am trying to install pushpin (replaced-url
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2523[13:11:54] <BCMM> cluelessperson: well fyi it looks like everything except the font is 403
2524[13:12:05] <BCMM> more docker problems? :p
2525[13:12:05] <cluelessperson> nirakara, apt search libcurl ? what options do you get?
2526[13:12:20] <nirakara> so when i try to install libcurl4, there's further unmet deps: Depends: libbrotli1 (>= 0.6.0) but it is not going to be installed,
2527[13:12:41] <cluelessperson> BCMM, ugh, I screwed up permissions. While reviewing backups, I adjusted a permissions script. I'll fix that quick. :P
2528[13:12:50] <nirakara> Depends: libgssapi-krb5-2 (>= 1.17) but 1.15-1+deb9u1 is to be installed, Depends: libssl1.1 (>= 1.1.1) but 1.1.0l-1~deb9u1 is to be installed
2529[13:12:58] <ratrace> nirakara: are you mixing repos? what does this say: apt-cache policy libcurl4
2530[13:12:59] <BCMM> nirakara: try `aptitude why-not libcurl4`
2531[13:13:09] <jm_> if you are using testing/sid try #debian-next on oftc
2532[13:13:21] <BCMM> nirakara: hang on, what version of debian are you on?
2533[13:13:37] <nirakara> i'm on debian stretch but libcurl wants to install from unstable
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2535[13:13:43] <jm_> don't
2536[13:13:44] <nirakara> do i have a frakendebian? :(
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2538[13:14:01] <BCMM> nirakara: ... do you have oldstable and unstable repos available on the same system?
2539[13:14:17] <nirakara> apt-cache policy libcurl4: replaced-url
2540[13:14:24] <nirakara> BCMM: how do i check this?
2541[13:14:35] <cluelessperson> BCMM, yeah, I did `special 2775 0660` by mistake there. :P
2542[13:14:44] <BCMM> nirakara: /etc/sources.list and /etc/sources.list.d/
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2545[13:15:30] <nirakara> aptitude why-not libcurl4: replaced-url
2546[13:15:38] <BCMM> nirakara: *in general*, you can't mix-and-match packages from different debian releases. there are a few simple cases where it will mostly be fine, at least with appropriate pinning, but replacing important system libraries is definitely not one of those.
2547[13:15:43] *** Quits: BitterMuffin (~PoselMuff@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2548[13:16:00] <cluelessperson> BCMM, I use my own CA, and it's useful to be able to install it everywhere easily, so I just put it there. :P New phone? install ca cert, done.
2549[13:16:02] *** Joins: Jerrynicki (~niklas@replaced-ip)
2550[13:16:28] <BCMM> you have a domain, but you use a self-signed cert?
2551[13:16:41] *** Joins: lstanley (sid7517@replaced-ip)
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2556[13:16:56] <cluelessperson> BCMM, for internal stuff, yeah.
2557[13:16:57] <BCMM> if you have a domain, you can get a free cert from an authority that's already installed on every device in the world
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2560[13:17:19] <cluelessperson> BCMM, and then I'd have to trust them, someone I don't know, governed by people I don't know, no thanks.
2561[13:17:38] <nirakara> BCMM: ./unstable-wireguard.list.save:deb replaced-url
2562[13:17:47] <at0m> i run a whole OS written by people i don't know
2563[13:17:50] <ratrace> cluelessperson: if you don't remove ca-certificates, your theory is broken right there.
2564[13:17:50] <nirakara> ./unstable-wireguard.list:deb replaced-url
2565[13:18:13] <nirakara> so do i remove these wireguard repos and all should be fine?
2566[13:18:23] *** Quits: frgo (~frgo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2567[13:18:27] <cluelessperson> ratrace, :P some places I do.
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2570[13:18:52] <BCMM> nirakara: that's not a wireguard repository. that's the main debian unstable repo.
2571[13:19:04] <cluelessperson> ratrace, BCMM varying wildcards are also expensive, and I do. service.<network>.<site>.clueless.fun :P
2572[13:19:24] <ratrace> cluelessperson: rigth so you DO trust others to certify that your self-signed cert won't be abused
2573[13:19:40] <cluelessperson> ratrace, I try not to, but sometimes I have to I suppose.
2574[13:19:49] <cluelessperson> can't just disable my access to the internet.
2575[13:19:49] <ratrace> thign is, as long as FF trusts any CA that's not you yourself alone, your self-signed cert has ZERO value over something obtained from LE, for example.
2576[13:20:02] <ratrace> (and for example FF, but really any SSL client)
2577[13:20:05] <nirakara> BCMM: I've renamed those two files and i still get the same error after sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade
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2579[13:20:15] <BCMM> cluelessperson: not trusting the cert authorities doesn't really work; they can *already* issue certs in your name if they are dishonest, and your phone will trust those certs by default.
2580[13:20:16] <nirakara> (i added .bak to their filenames)
2581[13:20:17] <cluelessperson> ratrace, I can't easily get wildcards from LE.
2582[13:20:33] <cluelessperson> BCMM, well, sounds entirely broken.
2583[13:20:41] <ratrace> cluelessperson: do you even need them. with LE you can have any cert for any (sub)domain combo you control
2584[13:20:41] <BCMM> nirakara: i assume you got some config somewhere that's preventing, or at least trying to prevent, apt from just upgrading the whole system to unstable
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2587[13:21:09] <cluelessperson> BCMM, ratrace It's just easy and inexpensive for me to make my own CA, wildcard certs are expensive, and I don't have to renew them constantly, which is a pita.
2588[13:21:13] *** Parts: farmer (5b70068a@replaced-ip) ()
2589[13:21:16] <nirakara> BCMM: how to investigate this? all my other repos are for stable/stretch
2590[13:21:21] <cluelessperson> I can't help if the external system is broken. :P
2591[13:21:36] <BCMM> nirakara: "stable" or "stretch"? or a mix of both?
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2593[13:21:48] <ratrace> cluelessperson: that's fine. as long as you don't pretend it's in any shape more secure, as long as your TLS clients trust other CAs than yourself :)
2594[13:21:53] <BCMM> nirakara: if you used a mixture of stable and stretch, that would have worked fine a year ago...
2595[13:22:05] <BCMM> nirakara: because stable and stretch *used to* be the same thing
2596[13:22:14] <nirakara> BCMM: i see. so how do i fix this?
2597[13:22:26] <cluelessperson> ratrace, it's a good remind, I've largely ignored that. :/
2598[13:22:29] <nirakara> i'd rather nuke everything and make it work again than fiddle around endlessly :/
2599[13:22:32] <BCMM> nirakara: so far, i wouldn't go so far as to say this is fixible
2600[13:22:37] <nirakara> >_<M
2601[13:22:39] <BCMM> nirakara: yeah nuke it and start again tbh
2602[13:22:46] <nirakara> full reinstall?
2603[13:22:58] <cluelessperson> ratrace, however, it does work with client certs as well. ;)
2604[13:23:24] <BCMM> nirakara: it might not be as bad as it sounds, but it sounds like you have a mixture of stretch and buster packages, with (hopefully just a few) sid packages thrown in
2605[13:23:25] <nirakara> BCMM: is there something i can try before nuking?
2606[13:24:21] <BCMM> nirakara: sure. there's an aptitude command (which presently escapes me but i can look up) which will list all the packages on your system that don't correspond to packages currently available in repos
2607[13:24:27] <jm_> check the version of libc6 to start with
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2609[13:24:49] <BCMM> nirakara: decide whether you're mostly running a stable or oldstable system right now (i think oldstable, but that's just based on your libssl)
2610[13:25:02] <nirakara> BCCM: here's what i have based on grepping for "stable" and "
2611[13:25:06] <nirakara> stretch" replaced-url
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2613[13:26:09] <BCMM> nirakara: set your sources.list to reflect that, apt update, and then see how many packages that "don't exist" are installed
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2616[13:26:16] <BCMM> nirakara: honestly that's kind of hard to read
2617[13:26:30] <nirakara> BCMM: how can i make it easier/
2618[13:26:40] <nirakara> BCMM: `aptitude search ~o` does not work on my install
2619[13:26:41] <jm_> nirakara: dpkg -s libc6 which version?
2620[13:26:48] <BCMM> nirakara: probably just pastebin the whole sources.list file and sources.list.d directory
2621[13:27:19] <nirakara> jm_: dpkg-query: error: --status needs a valid package name but 'libc6' is not: ambiguous package name 'libc6' with more than one installed instance
2622[13:27:27] <BCMM> oh and probably the preferences.d file
2623[13:27:40] *** Quits: winy (~vince@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving.)
2624[13:27:54] <BCMM> not saying i understand about your pinning setup, but somebody else probably will
2625[13:28:04] <BCMM> ^preferences.d directory
2626[13:28:13] <jm_> nirakara: the command is «dpkg -s libc6» -- what did you type?
2627[13:28:34] <jm_> you can also try dpkg -l|grep libc6
2628[13:28:35] <BCMM> jm_: multilib
2629[13:28:45] <BCMM> nirakara: "dpkg -s libc6:amd64"
2630[13:28:49] *** Joins: dewowzer (~dewowzer@replaced-ip)
2631[13:29:08] <BCMM> jm_: most likely the system just has libc6:amd64 and libc6:i386
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2634[13:30:06] *** Parts: dewowzer (~dewowzer@replaced-ip) ()
2635[13:30:17] <nirakara> sources.list.d/ ---> replaced-url
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2637[13:30:52] *** Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
2638[13:30:59] <towo^work> that's a real frankendebian
2639[13:31:14] <BCMM> nirakara: oh ok, that's not quite as bad as i was expecting
2640[13:31:18] <nirakara> jm_: dpkg -l|grep libc6 ---> replaced-url
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2644[13:31:46] <nirakara> BCMM: please share the source of your insight (no pun intended) ;)
2645[13:31:52] <jm_> looks like stretch then
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2650[13:32:51] <BCMM> nirakara: well, looks like all reference to stable are for third-party repos, hopefully single-application stuff. your actual debian repos are all stretch.
2651[13:33:01] <nirakara> BCMM: great how do i disable and fix?
2652[13:33:04] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: Bin weg.)
2653[13:33:21] <BCMM> nirakara: i reckon this makes it a stretch system with a bunch of junk that needs to be cleaned up, rather than a total loss of a hybrid system.
2654[13:33:42] <BCMM> nirakara: what do you mean about aptitude not working?
2655[13:34:13] <BCMM> nirakara: i mean, what happens when you do `aptitude search "~o"`?
2656[13:34:21] <nirakara> sudo aptitude search ~o ---> zsh: no such user or named directory: o
2657[13:34:34] <BCMM> don't know why you're running that as root
2658[13:34:44] <BCMM> nirakara: oh, just put quotes on the ~o
2659[13:35:04] *** Joins: apollo13 (apollo13@replaced-ip)
2660[13:35:06] <nirakara> BCMM: with quotes ---> replaced-url
2661[13:35:13] <BCMM> nirakara: in most shells, ~username expands to the path to username's home directory
2662[13:35:20] <nirakara> ah >_<
2663[13:35:49] <BCMM> nirakara: oh, this looks mostly ok actually
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2667[13:38:15] <BCMM> nirakara: yeah, so you haven't pulled any part of debian itself from buster, and you installed an actually pretty reasonable set of packages from unstable
2668[13:38:35] *** Joins: zeden (~user@replaced-ip)
2669[13:38:36] <nirakara> BCMM: i was careful i remember but i can't remember when or why
2670[13:38:52] <nirakara> i made sure to specify to insitall from unstable specifically
2671[13:39:08] <nirakara> the questions remains begged though
2672[13:39:12] <BCMM> yeah, looks like you did that just to get wireguard and probably used pinning to make sure nothing else came in
2673[13:39:14] <nirakara> "how to fix pls kthx?"
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2676[13:39:30] <BCMM> nirakara: so the original problem was trying to install pushpin, right?
2677[13:39:36] <nirakara> BCMM: correct
2678[13:40:32] <BCMM> nirakara: the bit i'm still not getting is why it tried to install libcurl4. the stretch version of zurl wouldn't do that...
2679[13:40:56] <BCMM> so maybe there was something wrong with apt preferences, allowing the unstable version of zurl to come in.
2680[13:41:02] *** Joins: wonderer (~quakeroat@replaced-ip)
2681[13:41:07] <nirakara> BCMM: where do i check this
2682[13:41:13] <BCMM> nirakara: can you just check that apt is happy at the moment? apt update && apt upgrade?
2683[13:41:24] <BCMM> nirakara: i don't know, i really don't see how that happened
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2687[13:42:17] <nirakara> apt is not happy, this is how it has been complaining for the while (after `update`) ---> replaced-url
2688[13:42:26] *** Quits: barteks2x_ (~barteks2x@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2689[13:42:30] <nirakara> is apt a girl? can i say "she's" been complaining?
2690[13:42:33] <nirakara> or he
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2692[13:42:49] *** Quits: troulouliou_dev (~troulouli@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2693[13:42:49] <nirakara> ignore, OT
2694[13:43:16] *** Quits: zeden (~user@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
2695[13:43:21] *** Joins: rootkea (~rootkea@replaced-ip)
2696[13:43:46] <BCMM> nirakara: eh, that's OK. i mean, not OK as such, but that looks like it's just 1 repo that no longer exists and 1 repo that changed it's signing key, both third-party
2697[13:44:05] <nirakara> BCMM: yeah, can i disable that? there's some other errors that aren't appearing now
2698[13:44:16] <BCMM> i mean it probably means you're using a web browser that's not getting security updates, so for god's sake don't do that, but i don't think it's actually breaking apt
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2701[13:44:19] *** Joins: zeden (~user@replaced-ip)
2702[13:44:23] <ratrace> nirakara: "it" doesn't work?
2703[13:44:36] <nirakara> BCMM: brave is broken on stretch for a while
2704[13:44:39] <nirakara> so i don't open it
2705[13:44:44] *** Quits: ihristov (55c48532@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
2706[13:44:58] <BCMM> nirakara: that brings me to: are you sure you still want to be using stretch?
2707[13:45:01] <nirakara> ratrace: indeed
2708[13:45:08] *** Joins: petan (~g@replaced-ip)
2709[13:45:11] <nirakara> BCMM: i need to get this work done and consider upgrading another time...
2710[13:45:14] *** Joins: fereneme (~fereneme@replaced-ip)
2711[13:45:25] <nirakara> BCMM: is there an easy way to upgrade to newstable without breaking everything
2712[13:45:39] <nirakara> otherwise it would be easier to just get zurl installed and contineu
2713[13:45:44] <cluelessperson> BCMM, ratrace oh, and the permissions are fixed for that directory. :P
2714[13:45:51] <BCMM> nirakara: i wouldn't like to guarantee that...
2715[13:46:16] <nirakara> BCMM: so let's go the safer route?
2716[13:46:43] <BCMM> nirakara: to some extent, the point of debian stable is that instead of randomly breaking all the time, debian saves up all its breakage for two years and then unleashes it at once when you upgrade to the new release
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2720[13:47:44] <BCMM> that's not entirely fair; debian stable is pretty low on things that are actually broken. but "breakage" in the sense of software changing which might require you to modify your workflow happens when you changed releases.
2721[13:47:56] <BCMM> s/changed/change/
2722[13:48:09] <nirakara> BCMM: i'd rather defer the update and get zurl installed :/
2723[13:49:08] <BCMM> nirakara: if you want to silence your `apt update` errors, remove the offending repos from your sources.list.d/
2724[13:49:10] <nirakara> BCMM: so i removed the brave and pretix repos and now apt is not complaining
2725[13:49:38] <nirakara> sudo apt upgrade says nothing to install
2726[13:49:46] <BCMM> nirakara: *BUT* those errors are useful. they are telling you that you're not getting updates. so if i were you, i would uninstall the packages you got from those repos at the same time.
2727[13:49:54] <nirakara> BCMM: yes.
2728[13:49:59] <nirakara> but that's kinda irrelevant here, no?
2729[13:50:01] *** Highdude702 is now known as Highdude
2730[13:50:03] <BCMM> nirakara: ok, well, now try pushpin again. make sure you add their stretch repository in particular
2731[13:50:27] *** Quits: mossman (~mossman@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2732[13:50:36] <nirakara> BCMM: same issue
2733[13:50:44] *** Joins: fdal1eau (~Fredo@replaced-ip)
2734[13:50:45] <nirakara> pushpin : Depends: zurl (>= 1.3.0-2) but it is not going to be installed
2735[13:50:52] <nirakara> zurl : Depends: libcurl4 but it is not installable
2736[13:50:54] <nirakara> ...etc
2737[13:51:32] <BCMM> nirakara: ok, i must admit i'm a bit stuck now. zurl should depend on libcurl3. replaced-url
2738[13:51:43] <nirakara> can anyone else help?
2739[13:51:45] <nirakara> ratrace: ?
2740[13:52:04] *** Quits: jm_ (flier@replaced-ip) (Quit: Disconnecting)
2741[13:52:07] <BCMM> nirakara: oh, i've got it now.
2742[13:52:21] <ratrace> nirakara: ?!
2743[13:52:24] <BCMM> nirakara: the fanout repo ships its own zurl package i think
2744[13:52:37] *** Joins: FuzzyByte (~FuzzyByte@replaced-ip)
2745[13:52:46] *** Joins: FragtioN (~fragtion@replaced-ip)
2746[13:52:57] <BCMM> nirakara: specifically the fanout repo for stretch ships a zurl package that is not installable on stretch.
2747[13:53:01] *** Joins: monkeystance (~monkeysta@replaced-ip)
2748[13:53:26] <nirakara> BCMM: is there a way to fix this? i mean why would they call it stretch if its broken on stretch, sigh
2749[13:53:34] <nirakara> ratrace: i thought perhaps you could help. sorry.
2750[13:53:41] *** Quits: fdalleau (~Fredo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2751[13:54:07] *** Joins: dewowzer (dewowzer@replaced-ip)
2752[13:54:22] <BCMM> "Depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libcurl3 (>= 7.18.0), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.0), libqt5core5a (>= 5.7.0), libqt5network5 (>= 5.0.2), libssl1.0.2 (>= 1.0.2d), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1), libzmq5 (>= 3.2.3+dfsg), adduser, lsb-base (>= 3.0-6), libcurl4"
2753[13:54:29] <BCMM> ... so it needs libcurl3 *and* libcurl4?
2754[13:54:40] *** Joins: starch (~starch@replaced-ip)
2755[13:54:50] <BCMM> i'm pretty sure this is just a bug with the fanout repo
2756[13:55:04] <nirakara> BCMM: is there a way to hack aroudn this
2757[13:55:18] *** Joins: OSCer (5dbee31e@replaced-ip)
2758[13:55:43] <BCMM> nirakara: uh, yeah, probably
2759[13:55:48] <joepublic> imo some genius should figure out how to make libcurl4 provide libcurl3.
2760[13:55:57] <nirakara> *_*
2761[13:56:02] <BCMM> nirakara: well i don't know why they feel the need to ship zurl, when stretch has a newer version of zurl anyway
2762[13:56:19] <nirakara> BCMM: if i try install zurl manually it still fails, so that can't be it?
2763[13:56:36] <BCMM> nirakara: if you try to do `apt install zurl`, you mean?
2764[13:56:39] *** Joins: alain (~alain@replaced-ip)
2765[13:56:49] <nirakara> BCMM: indeed
2766[13:56:55] *** Joins: Pjusur1 (~Pjusur@replaced-ip)
2767[13:56:56] <nirakara> although that could be because i have the repo already added to my sources
2768[13:57:21] <BCMM> nirakara: sorry, i miscounted. stretch has a *new enough* version of zurl, not a newer version
2769[13:57:55] <BCMM> nirakara: i think you just need to make sure apt prefers the debian version of zurl over the fanout one
2770[13:57:58] <nirakara> BCMM: it worked!!!!
2771[13:58:01] *** Quits: Pjusur (~Pjusur@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2772[13:58:04] <nirakara> i removed the repo
2773[13:58:06] <nirakara> installed zurl
2774[13:58:08] <nirakara> added it again
2775[13:58:09] <nirakara> tada!
2776[13:58:18] <BCMM> oh, i didn't think of that...
2777[13:58:19] <nirakara> thank you for your patience
2778[13:58:22] <nirakara> <3 Debian
2779[13:58:42] *** Joins: dTal (~dTal@replaced-ip)
2780[13:58:47] <BCMM> i'm guessing that every time you update it will now say something like "1 package has been held back: zurl"
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2783[13:59:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1556
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2785[13:59:11] <mijndert> nirakara: been using debian for 20 years now, wouldn't want anything else
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2787[13:59:34] <nirakara> mijndert: there's been issues with my wifi and gfx, but whatever. i want to support free software
2788[13:59:35] <dTal> I'm having some difficulty with this procedure: replaced-url
2789[13:59:38] <BCMM> (because apt sees a newer zurl package in a repo, but is smart enough to know that it's not installable)
2790[13:59:55] <BCMM> dTal: as luck would have it, i did that procedure just yesterday!
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2792[14:00:00] <nirakara> BCMM: how to upgrade when im ready and work pressure is not on?
2793[14:00:01] <BCMM> dTal: was it the bind mount that failed?
2794[14:00:12] *** Quits: fdal1eau (~Fredo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2795[14:00:18] <BCMM> nirakara: see the debian manual
2796[14:00:20] <dTal> No, I simply unpacked the image.
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2798[14:00:39] *** Joins: alpernebbi (~quassel@replaced-ip)
2799[14:00:46] <BCMM> nirakara: but basically, disable all your third party repos, uninstall your third party stuff, upgrade debian, reinstall your third party stuff
2800[14:00:55] <nirakara> thanks BCMM
2801[14:00:55] <dTal> The problem I'm having is that apt is giving up after hitting the InRelease files, without updating its package database.
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2803[14:01:05] <BCMM> nirakara: not always strictly necessary but it's the cleanest approach
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2806[14:01:33] <nirakara> BCMM: update gives me this now: replaced-url
2807[14:02:12] <BCMM> nirakara: oh, the appstream cache basically doesn't matter. it's fancy metadata for GUI packaging frontends
2808[14:02:30] <BCMM> application icons and stuff. if you just use apt on the command line anyway you can literally ignore that.
2809[14:02:30] <nirakara> BCMM: i figured cause everything kept working :D
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2811[14:02:52] <nirakara> BCMM you were right zurl was kept back
2812[14:02:54] <dTal> So I'm assuming there's some environment variable weirdness that's throwing it off, but I can't imagine what.
2813[14:02:57] <BCMM> (you can also uninstall your gui package manager so it stops maintaining that metadata)
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2816[14:03:38] <BCMM> dTal: i'm not clear how this relates to raspberry pis and qemu - is this happening inside the chrooted environment?
2817[14:03:59] <dTal> Yes.
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2819[14:04:26] <dTal> Well, systemd-nspawned - we're not allowed to say "chroot" anymore I guess :p
2820[14:04:47] <BCMM> ah, ok. i might not be much use with this. i wasn't using raspbian, and i was using a chroot.
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2822[14:05:09] <BCMM> (was still using qemu to run raspberry pi userspace on a desktop though)
2823[14:05:23] <dTal> Everything seeems perfectly in order; dpkg --print-architecture prints armhf. The sources.list is entirley stock and correct. Networking is functional. It simply hits replaced-url
2824[14:05:28] <BCMM> dTal: what do you mean by "giving up"? does it just silently quit?
2825[14:05:36] <BCMM> oh, right
2826[14:05:58] <BCMM> dTal: *networking* is functional - did you check dns?
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2828[14:06:09] *** Quits: htalker (~lijin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2829[14:06:12] <BCMM> e.g. did you try `ping google.com` as opposed to pinging and ip address?
2830[14:06:14] <dTal> Even better, it "builds package lists" and dependency trees and so forth -the usual.
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2834[14:07:07] <dTal> But it doesn't hit replaced-url
2835[14:07:12] *** Joins: debsan (~debsan@replaced-ip)
2836[14:07:37] <dTal> It's not a network issue. It's not even *trying*.
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2839[14:09:03] <BCMM> dTal: i'm not familiar with systemd-nspawn - is apt running as root, or some reasonable approximation of root?
2840[14:09:19] <dTal> Yes, real root.
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2845[14:09:25] <steinex> hi, is ftp.de.debian.org down?
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2848[14:11:15] <nyov> steinex: looks like
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2850[14:11:44] <BCMM> dTal: well, i don't know why it's doing this. but if you want a workaround, you might be able to do `apt-get -o RootDir=blah` using your host system's real apt install
2851[14:11:47] <dTal> What does apt do with the InRelease file? What decisions is it taking at that moment?
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2853[14:12:30] *** Joins: traveltissues (~traveltis@replaced-ip)
2854[14:12:33] <BCMM> steinex: this is one reason to use deb.debian.org, which will generally automatically find you a working mirror
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2856[14:12:58] <steinex> BCMM: problem with this is that we need /debian-archive/ too
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2858[14:13:11] <steinex> which deb.debian.org doesn't (always?) provide i think.
2859[14:13:23] <nyov> de2 seems more reliable in general
2860[14:13:34] <BCMM> steinex: huh, i didn't know that was mirrored anywhere
2861[14:13:35] <steinex> de2 hasn't /debian-archive/ too :/
2862[14:13:40] <mijndert> steinex: you can also use the dutch mirror for now, it's close to .de after all :P replaced-url
2863[14:13:57] <steinex> mijndert: yeah, probably that's what we will do now
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2865[14:14:56] <nyov> is a few hours downtime really such a hassle? -archive doesn't serve security patches
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2873[14:18:10] <joepublic> five nines, one nine, what's the difference
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2891[14:23:39] <nyov> 36
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2912[14:32:35] <rick_> Where am I?
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2916[14:36:02] <mijndert> lol
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2923[14:38:46] <Haohmaru> ur in crapdows hell
2924[14:39:23] <nvz> you've just been rick_ rolled!
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2926[14:39:39] <Haohmaru> i mean the speshul kind of hell for crapdows users
2927[14:40:48] <ratrace> crapdows, is that a linux distro?
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2935[14:44:49] <Haohmaru> no
2936[14:44:59] <Haohmaru> it's how i call M$ windewz
2937[14:45:19] <ratrace> but windows is a linux distro...
2938[14:45:23] *** Quits: Slashman (~Slash@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2939[14:45:26] <Haohmaru> uh
2940[14:45:28] <Haohmaru> no it aint
2941[14:45:41] <ratrace> 'tis
2942[14:45:42] * Haohmaru looks in C:\ ... nope
2943[14:45:45] <NieDzejkob> Poe's law strikes again
2944[14:46:04] <ratrace> NieDzejkob: IKR!
2945[14:46:04] *** Quits: iViLe (~bob@replaced-ip) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2946[14:46:28] <tachikomas> The more it goes, the more its going on the opensource part.
2947[14:46:51] * Haohmaru types "ls" in command pr0mpt -> nuffin
2948[14:47:02] <tachikomas> Because you do it wrong.
2949[14:47:16] <tachikomas> you can ls in powershell
2950[14:47:21] *** Joins: nku (~nku@replaced-ip)
2951[14:47:24] <Haohmaru> uh uh
2952[14:47:33] <Haohmaru> dis is crapdows7 here
2953[14:48:04] <tachikomas> same in 7 anyway its an offtopic discussion :)
2954[14:48:04] <yibotg> Hello everyone,I used the xfce4 on my HP520,and Oneday When I opened this machine,The screen display in 1027x768(but the screen is wide 1280x800) at the begining of bios screen,(there was a black tide on the right of the screen) and display the top screen at the bottom.I used to think it is hardware error, but I can display correctly sometime . so strange.
2955[14:48:09] <ratrace> Haohmaru: because it's not based on GNU/linux, duh! ls is gnu. linux is kernel.
2956[14:48:28] <tachikomas> yibotg: try arandr
2957[14:48:38] *** Quits: Guest19180 (~prince@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2958[14:48:49] <tachikomas> and reset the value to 1280x800
2959[14:48:51] <yibotg> tried the output only have 1024x768
2960[14:49:01] *** Joins: Thedarkb (~beno@replaced-ip)
2961[14:49:06] <tachikomas> yibotg: did you update anything ?
2962[14:49:12] *** Quits: MenschZwoNull_ (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2963[14:49:21] <yibotg> I don't know
2964[14:49:40] <yibotg> I use the xmonad by selfcompile
2965[14:50:00] *** Quits: JohnML (~john1@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2966[14:50:03] <yibotg> it may compile a low X system
2967[14:50:28] <yibotg> my english is poor,sorry
2968[14:50:37] <tachikomas> yibotg: dont worry :)
2969[14:50:59] <yibotg> thank you :-)
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2973[14:51:47] <tachikomas> unfortunately i dont really know xmonad. But you mention the bios. do you see any "weird" things during the boot sequence (grub menu) ?
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2976[14:52:37] <yibotg> there is a warning for some mei mei fw version
2977[14:53:12] <CQ> hello, I am using certbot in buster ... the current version seems to be 1.1something on github, but only 0.31 is in buster ... any suggestions? I would have expected a newer version in backports or even in buster itself
2978[14:53:49] <tachikomas> CQ package version might be different of the github version.
2979[14:53:53] <yibotg> I am sorry,I used xrandr but not arandr,now I am using arandr
2980[14:54:05] <nvz> yibotg: how is the display connected? I've had this happen recently using an HDMI switch, causes the machine to not be able to detect the display's capabilities
2981[14:54:29] <CQ> tachikomas, certbot --version gives certbot 0.31.0
2982[14:55:21] <yibotg> nvz: the screen on laptop
2983[14:55:51] *** Quits: rephlexie (~rephlexie@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
2984[14:56:09] <nvz> yibotg: did you fool with the display connector? usually they are bolted down with a metal plate and screws
2985[14:56:33] <nyov> o.O
2986[14:56:46] *** Quits: cecile (~cecile@replaced-ip) (Quit: cecile)
2987[14:57:09] <nvz> nyov: O.o
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2989[14:57:57] *** Joins: Hal2001 (~anon@replaced-ip)
2990[14:58:14] <nyov> is that what they meant by "Oneday When I opened this machine"?
2991[14:58:23] <nvz> I suspected
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2993[14:58:32] *** Joins: dez (uid92154@replaced-ip)
2994[14:58:57] <yibotg> nvz:lol I mean I press the on button
2995[14:58:57] *** Joins: flo2marsnet_ (~flo2marsn@replaced-ip)
2996[14:59:03] <nvz> problem is, using vague HP model numbers not the ACTUAL full model.. is.. there are printers, thin clients, laptops, and desktops all with the same model :P
2997[14:59:20] <nvz> I have an HP T520 thin client.. there is also a printer with that model
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2999[15:00:05] <yibotg> thank you maybe,the alsa on this machine is error same.
3000[15:00:15] <nvz> yibotg: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | nc termbin.com 9999
3001[15:00:36] <yibotg> the error display,the error alsa
3002[15:00:45] <nyov> if the issue is in early boot I would suspect a driver/kms thing changed
3003[15:00:50] <nvz> you're having audio issues as well?
3004[15:01:08] <nvz> are you having any errors on POST, like the battery voltage is low or something?
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3007[15:01:42] <nvz> have you messed around in the BIOS settings?
3008[15:02:16] <yibotg> nvz:trying display the log
3009[15:03:07] <yibotg> displayed this : replaced-url
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3012[15:04:43] <yibotg> nvz yes,the audio broken the battery worked out quickly
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3014[15:05:19] <tachikomas> yibotg: maybe reset the bios to factory default
3015[15:05:28] <nvz> yibotg: did you create an xorg config file? I dont think enabling outputs VGA1, LVDS1, and VIRTUAL1 would be done by default
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3017[15:05:38] <yibotg> nvz:I thinked it is for the loptop is old.
3018[15:05:58] <nvz> yibotg: yes, I looked it up.. its an old Pentium machine
3019[15:06:04] <yibotg> tachikomas:thank you ,I'll try.
3020[15:06:17] <nvz> yibotg: which made me think it could be ram/psu issues but that would cause other problems too
3021[15:06:42] <tachikomas> for a wrong resolution it seems a bit unlikely but .. why not :D
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3023[15:06:59] <nvz> yeah this shoudl be a simple EDID operation
3024[15:07:16] <nvz> which is usually only affected by connection
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3026[15:07:54] <nyov> if there is an /etc/X11/xorg.conf file, you might want to try to move it away, see how X starts after that
3027[15:08:09] <nvz> though I've had monitors where the firmware on the monitor had gone awry.. I had one LCD display I swear had a virus.. it had images that would display on it even when not connected to the computer
3028[15:08:18] <yibotg> :nvz I used 915resolution and intel-firmware.and when I used it, It can't display correctly once.before this, 50% percent for correct display
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3032[15:10:03] <yibotg> /etc/X11/xorg.conf file is exists,I writed it from the tips on website
3033[15:10:27] *** Joins: Casper26 (~Casper26@replaced-ip)
3034[15:10:29] <nvz> well thats probably what is causing your display issue
3035[15:10:46] <nvz> cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/* | nc termbin.com 9999
3036[15:10:58] <yibotg> :-) oho
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3048[15:15:36] <yibotg> :nvz my xorg.conf path is /etc/xorg.conf not the above and I don't have xorg.conf.d
3049[15:15:53] <JustASlacker> Are there pki-tools in debian? looks like there should be replaced-url
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3051[15:16:09] <nvz> ,v pki-tools
3052[15:16:10] <judd> Package: pki-tools on amd64 -- sid: 10.7.3-4
3053[15:16:18] <nvz> JustASlacker: only in sid it would seem
3054[15:16:22] <JustASlacker> nooooo!
3055[15:16:30] <nvz> ,checkbackport pki-tools
3056[15:16:42] <nvz> ,depends pki-tools
3057[15:16:45] <judd> Backporting package pki-tools in sid→buster/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: openjdk-8-jdk, libjss-java (>= 4.6.0), libldap-java (>= 4.21.0+dfsg1), libtomcatjss-java (>= 7.4.1).
3058[15:16:47] <judd> No package named 'pki-tools' was found in buster/amd64.
3059[15:17:29] <dvs> why openjdk-8-jdk?
3060[15:17:33] <nvz> yeah really
3061[15:18:10] <nvz> buster has openjdk-11-jdk
3062[15:18:18] <dvs> and sid doesn't?
3063[15:18:30] <nvz> ,v openjdk-11-jdk
3064[15:18:31] <judd> Package: openjdk-11-jdk on amd64 -- buster: 11.0.4+11-1~deb10u1; stretch-backports: 11.0.6+10-1~bpo9+1; buster-proposed-updates: 11.0.6+10-1~deb10u1; buster-security: 11.0.6+10-1~deb10u1; bullseye: 11.0.6+10-1; sid: 11.0.6+10-1
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3069[15:19:56] <yibotg> nvz:displayed this : replaced-url
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3074[15:21:14] <Guifle> hello, I am constantly getting errors with texstudio that one or other file is missing. apparently because I dont have texlive 2019. tlmgr also gives the error that my local repo is older than remote one. is there any upgrade of texstudio to 2019 in sight?
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3076[15:21:20] <nvz> yibotg: yes you are manually setting the refresh/sync in there.. thats probably not necessary and wrong
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3080[15:23:34] <nvz> by setting that you are telling xorg not to read the EDID info of the display
3081[15:23:37] <yibotg> nvz:yes,It display error accidental , and I try to recover it.and then I make it broken.
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3084[15:24:43] <yibotg> nvz:so,how can I handle it?
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3086[15:25:15] <yibotg> rm the xorg.conf?and How to recover the 915resolution?
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3089[15:26:19] <nvz> yibotg: I can only barely follow what you say, but yes I'd at the very least rename that file to Xorg.0.bak or something
3090[15:26:35] <nvz> idk what you were trying to address by making that file, but you did more than was necessary
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3099[15:29:10] <yibotg> nvz:yep,so I had broken the hardware?
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3102[15:29:38] <nvz> no, you broke the software by thinking you know better than its auto-detection
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3104[15:29:56] <nvz> when obviously you just copied random crap you read somewhere and don't know at all
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3106[15:30:17] <nvz> crap that was probably dated 10 years or more ago for another distro
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3109[15:31:00] <nvz> you have to pay attention to things like that when reading stuff online.. the date of the information, where its comming from, etc..
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3111[15:31:10] <nvz> xorg hasn't required a config file in a LONG time
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3114[15:31:40] <mijndert> thank god/whatever diety you may or may not believe in
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3117[15:32:44] <nvz> you only use it when you have a reason.. I have one because I have issues with my Intel HD 4400 graphics.. it spews messages to my logs every second.. I had to disable a feature.. but I ONLY changed that one bit. I didnt go and declare every specific feature overriding the auto-configuration of my card/display
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3124[15:34:41] <nvz> if you had a similar issue with your hardware, you should have a Device section not a Monitor section.. I have a Device section to disable the PageFlip option, but no Monitor section, so xorg can still auto-detect my display settings
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3126[15:35:02] <b1ack0p> hi
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3131[15:37:22] <yibotg> nvz:agree with you. the online informations are confusing,and not systematic.
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3142[15:40:32] <dD_> I've installed docker on a server and installed nextcloud. After this the ip address changed and is now showing the docker ip address. I cannot access my server through ssh anymore. What could be the cause of this?
3143[15:40:53] <ratrace> dD_: docker
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3154[15:46:22] <yibotg> I renamed the xorg.conf and rebooted the laptop. display error as same
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3163[15:48:10] <nvz> yibotg: cat /etc/X11/Xorg.0.conf | nc termbin.com 9999
3164[15:48:29] <nvz> erm
3165[15:48:43] <nvz> yibotg: cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | nc termbin.com 9999
3166[15:50:47] <dD_> ratrace, how could I debug this?
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3169[15:52:38] <yibotg> replaced-url
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3174[15:53:58] <yibotg> nvz: the audio mode also broken,maybe the i915 chipset is broken.
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3178[15:56:02] <yibotg> and nvz:when I use this laptop in 2007-2014,the wifi mode also have some problem,I have to restart network.service to make the connect can use.
3179[15:57:16] <yibotg> in 2013-2014,this laptop hp520 run archlinux
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3183[16:01:57] <nvz> yibotg: sudo journalctl -k | nc termbin.com 9999
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3186[16:05:24] <nvz> if sudo isn't installed/configured use pkexec instead
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3195[16:11:58] <yibotg> :nvz replaced-url
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3207[16:18:48] <nvz> yibotg: I don't see anything wrong there.. aside from the fact that those two logs did not come from the same system
3208[16:18:51] <Copenhagen_Bram> Can anyone help me with flatpak? For some reason, my XDG_DATA_DIRS doesn't have the directories that flatpak says it should have. I'm using LXDE with the LXDM display manager, and I think it needs to load /etc/X11/Xsession.d in order for XDG_DATA_DIRS to have the proper paths.
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3211[16:19:15] <nvz> yibotg: the journalctl output shows a kernel 4.19 booted, and the xorg log shows a 4.9 kernel
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3214[16:20:16] <nvz> I'm at a loss for whats going on here.. as I can't trust these logs they are inconsistent
3215[16:21:30] <nvz> to quote Desi Arnaz, "LUCY, You got some 'splainin to do... "
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3222[16:24:51] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Are samsung SSDs still unsafe for data?
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3224[16:25:49] * nvz doesn't consider any SSD safe for data
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3226[16:26:09] <nvz> their utility is speed, not integrity IMHO
3227[16:26:27] <nvz> I dont keep anything on an SSD thats important..
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3230[16:27:43] <nvz> I've had this one for quite awhile and it was used with windows.. for who knows how long before I got it.. so far no data loss.. but I still don't trust it
3231[16:27:44] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Samsung had a bit in 2014 wehre TRIM operations nuked random things because I guess they like living dangerously
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3236[16:28:39] <nvz> I am fairly new to SSD.. I notice it often locks up my whole system when writing a lot.. I figure its due to the small size and it being near full most of the time.. and having to clear out for the new data that is causing it to lock up
3237[16:28:58] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Perhaps you shouldn't buy the smallest around.
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3240[16:29:34] <nvz> yeah.. I haven't bought one yet.. I took this one out of the last laptop I had I got used.. and been using it in this one now for awhile
3241[16:30:00] <nvz> maybe after using them for 10 years or more I may come to trust them.. but for now, I just dont trust any of em
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3244[16:30:38] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Most HDDs aren't reliable for 10 years.
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3246[16:31:24] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> At least if you do any meaningful amount of writes.
3247[16:31:25] <nvz> the small 32GB ssd that came with this machine, I'd put into my old one when I sold it to my cousin.. it died on him without warning, just totally unreadable.. he had to get a new drive
3248[16:31:31] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Oh, there's you problem.
3249[16:31:32] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> 32GB
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3251[16:31:37] <nyov> yibotg: just an aside; you may want to install intel-microcode
3252[16:31:45] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> That's very small and a very old SSD
3253[16:31:54] <nvz> the one I got now is a 128GB SATA SSD
3254[16:33:02] <nvz> SanDisk SD7SB3Q128G1001 is the one I been using in my old and new(er) machine
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3269[16:38:51] <Sark> Installing Debian current on a new machine... found a bug in the installer. Using the manual disk partitioning, I can't set the bootable flag of the root partition I'm creating.
3270[16:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1587
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3273[16:40:43] <Sark> I should be able to select the "Bootable flag: off" option, hit enter, and toggle it to "on". But when I do that, it doesn't work. At least, the UI doesn't update. I get the "Please wait, computing the new state of the partition table" dialog, but it never changes the flag to "on".
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3277[16:42:37] <dvs> Sark, isn't the space bar the toggle?
3278[16:43:23] <nvz> Sark: the bootable flag is no longer a thing
3279[16:43:36] <Sark> Space bar doesn't toggle it either.
3280[16:43:38] <Sark> It's just broken.
3281[16:43:55] <nvz> its an old msdos/mbr thing.. we use gpt now, bootable flags haven't been required for like 20 years
3282[16:43:57] <Sark> No matter how I set it up, the bootable flag doesn't appear in the listing of the partition, it never sets it to on.
3283[16:44:00] <Sark> Huh?
3284[16:44:03] *** Quits: chachasmooth (~chachasmo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
3285[16:44:06] <Sark> How can it be bootable if it has no bootable flag?
3286[16:44:22] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> UEFI
3287[16:44:25] <nvz> since you have no grasp of it, lets just say its magic
3288[16:44:38] <nvz> even old bios systems haven't required it for ages
3289[16:44:39] * dvs is amazed!!!!
3290[16:44:47] *** Joins: Guest19180 (~prince@replaced-ip)
3291[16:45:01] *** Joins: safe (~safe@replaced-ip)
3292[16:45:11] <Sark> To be fair, this is the first computer I've ever used that has the UEFI thing on it.
3293[16:45:15] <nvz> especially with linux.. which uses a bootloader on the MBR in those cases which doesnt give a Flying F*** if the partition is tagged bootable or not
3294[16:45:21] <Haohmaru> <my_life_has_been_a_lie.jpg>
3295[16:45:25] <Sark> That makes sense, I never thought of that.
3296[16:45:31] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> old BIOSes read Grub from MBR, right?
3297[16:45:31] <Sark> I've just always set the root partition to be bootable.
3298[16:45:47] *** Quits: thee-anarchist (~thee-anar@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3299[16:45:48] <Sark> But, I suppose even lilo was installed to the mbr and would take over.
3300[16:45:49] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah, ninja'd
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3302[16:45:53] <Sark> So the actual bootable flag wouldn't matter.
3303[16:45:54] <Sark> Huh.
3304[16:45:54] <nvz> Sark: if you were properly following legacy methods, it'd be a small /boot partition with that flag..
3305[16:45:58] *** Quits: Bjornn- (~Bjornn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3306[16:46:04] <Sark> That's what I'm trying to create.
3307[16:46:13] <Sark> But it won't let me set the bootable flag ;)
3308[16:46:32] <nvz> yeah well afaik GPT partition tables dont have bootable flags
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3312[16:49:16] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> GPT doesn't have it because it doesn't support legacy modes. It's an EFI thing
3313[16:49:21] <Sark> Hrm, OK... clearly I need to do some reading. Now it's saying "No EFI partition was found".
3314[16:49:26] <Sark> And I don't know what that means....
3315[16:49:45] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> In boot you'd have /boot/efi
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3317[16:50:15] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3318[16:50:31] <nyov> Sark: ir probably means you're using uefi, and need an ESP efi system partition
3319[16:50:33] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> replaced-url
3320[16:51:18] *** Quits: AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3321[16:51:44] <Sark> OK... so I hit the "guided" partitioning, and THAT created a partition with a bootable flag!
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3327[16:52:48] <manipadme> if you type $apt and tab do you typically see apt-get as an option?
3328[16:53:06] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Other than removing swap because it's useless, putting your home on your local iscsi drive and maybe limiting /var/log, there's not that much that's necessary to modify.
3329[16:53:29] <Sark> Yeah, apt-get is an option when you do that.
3330[16:53:34] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Swapping is indistinguishable from freezing. :p
3331[16:53:46] <Sark> Swap is *vital*!
3332[16:53:49] <manipadme> trying to figure out what bash complete does I am wanting sudo apt-g tab to complete
3333[16:53:54] <Sark> How can you run a system without swap?
3334[16:54:17] <dvs> Sark, you can but I don't think it's smart
3335[16:54:25] *** Parts: jedelava (~jedelava@replaced-ip) ()
3336[16:54:30] <mllie> Hi guys! I copied a lot of files from an external hdd to a nas (unfortunately not using rsync). Now I would verify that everything has been copied, so I ran a dry run rsync, but that tells me that all files needs to be copied. Any idea how to compare?
3337[16:54:54] <manipadme> these instructions replaced-url
3338[16:55:22] *** Joins: epitamizer (~toombs@replaced-ip)
3339[16:55:26] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> swap is basically that way of caching memory that is several orders ofmagnitude slower than ram.
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3342[16:55:43] <nyov> mllie: diff -qr $a $b / md5sum
3343[16:55:45] <Sark> Right, but you HAVE to have swap, because what do you do when you run out of RAM?
3344[16:55:45] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> If you don't have enough RAM, buy more. Don't swap.
3345[16:55:48] *** Quits: DaRock (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
3346[16:56:03] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Also, the Out-of-Memory killer should prevent crashes anyway.
3347[16:56:04] <manipadme> Sark: maybe this is why Last Change: April 26 2009 article
3348[16:56:59] <Sark> To be fair, this new computer I'm setting up has eight gigs of RAM, so swapping might not come up nearly as often, but still.
3349[16:57:08] *** Quits: mtn (~mtn@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
3350[16:57:25] <Sark> I can't fathom running a machine without swap. If I didn't have swap, my main workstation wouldn't work at all.
3351[16:57:28] <Sark> lol
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3353[16:57:39] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> The only time swapping has come up for me is when I messed up and allocated a VM with more RAM than my machine had.
3354[16:57:43] *** Joins: fiiirree (FIRE@replaced-ip)
3355[16:57:47] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Instant freezing
3356[16:57:51] *** Quits: fiiirree (FIRE@replaced-ip) (Excess Flood)
3357[16:57:57] <mllie> nyov: What does "/ md5sum" mean?
3358[16:57:58] *** Quits: Ozzyboshi23 (~Ozzyboshi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3359[16:58:17] <dvs> Sark, or you can use swap for hibernation
3360[16:58:20] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> But fwiw, you can run a low-load Debian+nginx headless with 256Mb ram
3361[16:58:25] <nyov> either or; you can use md5sum on both folders and compare them
3362[16:58:33] *** Quits: seekr (~seekr@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
3363[16:58:43] <mllie> Ah. I'll try with diff :)
3364[16:58:49] <jomofcw> Hello !
3365[16:58:51] <nyov> bit diff is recursive, probably better
3366[16:58:54] <nyov> *but
3367[16:58:58] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> uswusp uses swap files and partitions for hibernation.
3368[16:59:06] <jomofcw> I still have my problem about converting file recursively to ut8 excluding binary files.
3369[16:59:09] <jomofcw> This is probably incomplete but i know that 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(find . -type f)' work as it changed the files encoding to the correct one, but it rewrite also binary files that make them wrong. 'vim "+set nomore" "+bufdo set fileencoding=utf8 | w" "+q" $(grep -r -I -l .)' may be OK, but it doesn't write anything as result.
3370[16:59:12] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Unless you're encrypting your partition/file, I'd strongly recommend not using it.
3371[16:59:25] <nyov> jomofcw: why don't you use better tools for the job?
3372[16:59:33] <Sark> Oh, I've had the emergency "I need more swap" situation and created a swap file and added it on the fly...
3373[16:59:45] *** Quits: jackedin (~jackedin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
3374[16:59:47] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> You really should add more memory to your system.
3375[16:59:47] <jomofcw> here is the cmdline of the "find" way : replaced-url
3376[16:59:58] *** Quits: dewowzer (dewowzer@replaced-ip) (Quit: WeeChat 2.3)
3377[16:59:58] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Or buy some used server with a bunch of memory.
3378[17:00:00] <mllie> nyov Yeah, that's what I want. Thanks! It's just to wait a bit...650k number of files à 1tb :)
3379[17:00:01] <jomofcw> nyov back ^^
3380[17:00:14] <Sark> I have three gigs of RAM. It's just that Chrome eats a lot of memory...
3381[17:00:15] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Servers make for decent workstations.
3382[17:00:30] <Sark> This is a server. That's how I have so much RAM in the first place.
3383[17:00:42] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> My server has 128GB?
3384[17:00:43] <jomofcw> nyov but which one ? That could be use on Linux, recursively and excluding only binbary files... can't find one :/
3385[17:01:03] <Sark> OK, and you have more money than I do. Congratulations.
3386[17:01:18] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Not what I meant. I meant that you can get old PowerEdge servers for nothing.
3387[17:01:32] <Sark> Right, that's what I'm using as a desktop. A PowerEdge 2600.
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3391[17:03:35] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah, G6. I see.
3392[17:03:46] <nyov> jomofcw: well. excluding "binary" files is probably not very easy. what's binary anyway.
3393[17:04:12] <nyov> jomofcw: but you can use file - or find, for recursive finds
3394[17:04:22] *** Quits: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
3395[17:04:31] <nyov> exluding "binary": file -0 -F' ' --mime-encoding -- * | grep -zv binary | awk '{ print $1 }'
3396[17:04:41] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Sark: Well, if you don't mind the performance degradation of swap, I suppose it's an okay solution.
3397[17:05:28] *** Quits: traveltissues (~traveltis@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
3398[17:05:31] <Sark> Well, when a machine runs slam out of core and freezes, that's not very good performance ;)
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3400[17:06:38] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> That tends to be the main cases when swap was used much at all in my case.
3401[17:07:05] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Hence my ill-disposition regarding it.
3402[17:07:40] *** Quits: conta (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Quit: conta)
3403[17:08:00] <jelly> Sark: using zram and swap on it is surprisingly a good workaround and lets hungry hungry browsers survive a couple more tabs / days before needing restart
3404[17:08:05] <Sark> Well, this new box I'm setting up to host some of my applications will help with the problem, it has 8 gigs of RAM.
3405[17:08:34] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> jelly: Ah, that's an interesting workaround I was unaware of.
3406[17:08:37] <Sark> But... found another weird bug.... I got it installed, and booted, got a console, but it has more lines than will display on the screen.
3407[17:08:43] <jelly> and yes, that means you'd be putting swap in RAM :-D
3408[17:08:53] <Sark> By a lot.
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3410[17:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1578
3411[17:09:13] <Sark> I have *never* seen te Linux console do this before.
3412[17:09:34] <jomofcw> nyov Hm OK i'll try to understand what it does and I try it.
3413[17:09:55] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> jelly: It'd need some buffer-space in normal-memory to be able to decompress on-use, correct?
3414[17:10:00] <nyov> jomofcw: what exactly are you trying anyway?
3415[17:10:08] <jelly> Sark: that can happen when there is more than one physical screen connected to a GPU card, with different resolutions, and you're looking at the smaller one
3416[17:10:18] <Sark> Nah, I only have one monitor hooked to this.
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3418[17:10:34] <jelly> Aurora_iz_kosmos: it works like normal swap.
3419[17:10:40] <Sark> I fixed it by counting the number of lines on the screen (30), and telling stty about it.
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3421[17:10:42] <nyov> jomofcw: recursive call: find . -type f -exec file -0 -F' ' --mime-encoding -- '{}' \; | grep -zv binary | awk '{ print $1 }'
3422[17:10:50] <Sark> But, like, what the actual heck?
3423[17:11:17] <jomofcw> Just about the pastie i've post : I think the problem is that the args are not exactly the same : I probably need to have the "./" at the start of each path with the grep too.
3424[17:11:21] <jelly> except zram makes the paged out pages take 2-3x less actual RAM
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3426[17:12:14] <jomofcw> nyov to convert encoding to UTF8 for each files in a directory and its subdirectory ignoring binary files (to convert only the HTML/PHP/CSS/JS/... and not the PNG/JPG/PDF/...).
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3428[17:13:34] <Sark> Is there a way to configure the console so that it will it on the screen?
3429[17:13:46] <nyov> ,uchardet
3430[17:13:48] <nyov> ,i uchardet
3431[17:13:49] <judd> Package uchardet (utils, optional) in buster/amd64: universal charset detection library - cli utility. Version: 0.0.6-3; Size: 13.6k; Installed: 50k; Homepage: replaced-url
3432[17:14:00] <Sark> I mean, this machine will mostly be used headless, but still, if I need to plug a monitor into it, I'd want it to fit on the screen.
3433[17:14:20] <nyov> jomofcw: you can use this, with iconv?
3434[17:14:31] <nyov> just a suggestion
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3436[17:15:01] <dvs> Can you hotplug a monitor these days?
3437[17:15:34] <jhutchins_wk> dvs: You've pretty much always been able to.
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3440[17:16:04] <jhutchins_wk> dvs: Well, for config and all, probably since the X config was deprecated.
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3444[17:16:40] <dvs> ok
3445[17:16:50] <aphorise> Is the netinstall now the smallest image? - there use to be smaller minimal images as well but I can spot them on cdimage.debian.org
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3447[17:17:00] <aphorise> cant*
3448[17:17:09] <dvs> aphorise, there is/was a businesscard image
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3453[17:18:35] <jomofcw> nyov I have iconv installed yea (or native with distro, dunno) but I dunno how I can use it to achieve my needs.
3454[17:18:35] *** Joins: pacbard (~pacbard@replaced-ip)
3455[17:18:43] <jomofcw> Dunno if it was what you mean...
3456[17:19:13] <jelly> aphorise: there's no smaller image any more, unless you netboot
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3502[17:43:48] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Is the fstrim service/timer enabled by default in Debian and does it actually run if the partition isn't mounted with -o discard ?
3503[17:43:52] <nyov> jomofcw: ok, let me string something together as an example
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3506[17:45:04] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: not enabled by default. -o discard is in a sense same as running fstrim once in a while since it will do it as it writes to the disk.
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3509[17:45:55] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah alright. Thanks.
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3515[17:46:41] <jomofcw> nyov OK !
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3520[17:47:17] <aypea[0]> Aurora_iz_kosmos: fyi: I don't bother with either and feel no ill effects.
3521[17:47:48] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I've been noticing some performance issues for a while now and I'm trying to figure out what's causing them.
3522[17:47:58] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: "If [-o discard is] set, causes discard/TRIM commands to be issued to the block device when blocks are freed.". Whether discard is set or not is irrelevant to fstrim. But if you're using full disk encryption, you'll need to tell dm_crypt to enable trim as well (not enabled by default for forensic reasons).
3523[17:48:02] <aypea[0]> Aurora_iz_kosmos: and, probably, -o discard is not a good idea as that'll do an erase every time you clear a block, which ups the wear and tear.
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3526[17:48:14] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> This SSD is uncertainly-new unlike my others and is the only one with the issue.
3527[17:48:44] <empresses> aypea[0]: duuuuude, trim is there to preserve the disk, not wear it out.
3528[17:48:54] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah... dm_crypt/LUKS doesn't interact nicely with TRIM?
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3530[17:49:33] <empresses> it interacts excellently with trim. But a trim leaks some forensic data which is why it disables it by default. Even if the disk is encrypted, the cleared blocks gives a hint about how much disk space you're using up.
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3533[17:50:03] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> And file boundaries
3534[17:50:35] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Worth considering.
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3536[17:52:39] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: they won't be able to decrypt anything for that matter.
3537[17:53:07] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Should one attempt to modify crypttab to allow it, or periodically boot a live system and use the appropriate options?
3538[17:53:46] <jelly> "forensic data" = "how much space is unused and where"
3539[17:54:07] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> So, no leaks like filesizes and directory hierarchy?
3540[17:54:09] * jelly can live with that
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3542[17:54:34] <jelly> Aurora_iz_kosmos: files are not necessarily stored contiguously on disk
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3544[17:54:51] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah, fragmentation to the rescue. Heh
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3546[17:55:15] <jelly> you could probably guess the filesystem type
3547[17:55:29] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: no, the file system is encrypted if you're encrypting the whole partition. What they see are blocks of garbage.
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3550[17:56:11] <tomreyn> it still leaks a lot less than an ecrypting file system would
3551[17:56:15] <empresses> but as jelly said, you could make a guess on the file system, maybe (don't know) based on how it's spread out over the disk.
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3553[17:56:21] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I see. I was mostly aware that there are some issues with progressive diffs of encrypted files.
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3555[17:56:27] <tomreyn> and is probably good enough for the average user
3556[17:56:40] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> The whole "why cryfs instead of ecryptfs/gocryptfs" thing
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3562[17:58:47] <empresses> tomreyn: even if the schematics to something extremely valuable was on that disk, a state wouldn't be able to decrypt it (assuming safe key/password) .. as far as we know. The only thing they could say is that half the disk wasn't being used and it therefore had 100GB unused data.. or maybe a free unused hidden partition and other guesses.
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3565[17:59:47] <aypea[0]> empresses: thanks for the heads-up my info on TRIM was a little stale. may want to turn this sucker on I think.
3566[17:59:50] <empresses> tomreyn: I'd use trim and still be safe.. but if you're protecting the schematics to the next nuclear sub, yeah, maybe it's best to not use trim... but then you could argue that the disk lives longer if you enable it.
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3568[18:00:35] <empresses> aypea[0]: you're missing life expectancy and performance :P.. but won't really see any difference until you get a new pc anyway.
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3572[18:01:09] <jelly> Aurora_iz_kosmos: if you want to prolong the life of the ssd device, do a security erase once, then format it but leave 10-20% completely unallocated forever. Then hope the firmware algorithms will be able to use that.
3573[18:01:20] <tomreyn> empresses: maybe you got me wrong, i said it's probably fine for the average user to use dmcrypt-luks with trim
3574[18:01:33] <aypea[0]> interesting. I have nothing to trim
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3576[18:02:13] <tomreyn> (or meant to)
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3580[18:02:42] <empresses> tomreyn: that's how I understood you. But I mean that it's probably fine even for the most secret of things.
3581[18:02:48] <empresses> meant*
3582[18:03:09] <InvisibleRasta> heya guys, does anyone know what kind of synaptic package manager error this is replaced-url
3583[18:03:10] <empresses> unless that "leaked meta" is important.
3584[18:03:32] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> jelly: Security Erase on SSDs simply does whole-drive TRIM, correct?
3585[18:03:33] <aypea[0]> ah. -n lies. :/
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3587[18:04:05] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: don't trust those.
3588[18:04:33] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> empresses: Yeah... it's highly subjective on the drive firmware properly implementing it.
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3590[18:04:46] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: those can be restored. I read a blog post of someone doing that. Don't trust the built in disk encryption as well, some disks have that (got nothing to do with dm_crypt which is at the kernel level).
3591[18:05:16] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> empresses: On HDDs there's overwrite shredding, but on SSDs it seems to be "use whole-drive encryption from the start or physically crush the disk"
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3593[18:05:36] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: a whole-drive TRIM can just mark blocks as "empty".
3594[18:05:51] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> empresses: Ah... Interesting.
3595[18:05:51] <empresses> to make blocks appear unused.
3596[18:06:12] <empresses> I could be wrong.. was years ago.. but my intuition is to not trust it.
3597[18:06:45] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I've never used in-drive encryption mainly because of the whole "unauditable code" thing.
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3600[18:07:41] <jelly> Aurora_iz_kosmos: something like that, yes
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3602[18:08:01] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: what's confirmed is that some disks use a master-key set at the factory. When you set a password that just encrypts the master key.
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3604[18:08:34] <empresses> oh, and what's definitely true, seen examples, is where they promise aes256 encryption or something, but it's something else.
3605[18:08:54] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> inb4 DES
3606[18:09:13] <empresses> some guy reverse engineered an usb flash disks and did not find aes256
3607[18:09:23] <empresses> disk*
3608[18:09:23] <aypea[0]> ah. it already does a weekly trim. just implemented in systemd not cron
3609[18:09:34] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> The timer needs to be enabled.
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3612[18:10:17] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> On my system it's disabled. Not that it could do much since I didn't know one has to enable dm-crypt/LUKS passthrough
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3624[18:15:35] <empresses> Aurora_iz_kosmos: I don't know how it works on debian but you just pass a flag
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3628[18:16:57] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> The flag is on cryptsetup-open.
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3631[18:17:04] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> By default crypttab doesn't have it.
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3698[18:54:45] <InvisibleRasta_> how come virtualbox is not in the repos?
3699[18:54:59] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Isn'it nonfree?
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3701[18:55:04] <greycat> replaced-url
3702[18:55:15] <InvisibleRasta_> on the wiki it says to use virt-manager but im not sure if it upports VDI disk images
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3704[18:55:41] <greycat> If you've already read the wiki, then you have the link that tells you why, so asking us "why" was silly.
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3712[18:56:34] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> replaced-url
3713[18:56:35] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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3715[18:56:45] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> That's a very good reason imo
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3720[18:57:31] <InvisibleRasta_> omh
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3722[18:57:41] <InvisibleRasta_> ill have to see if virt-manager actually supports vdi
3723[18:58:00] <greycat> personally, I'd add "Oracle" to the list of reasons
3724[18:58:33] <greycat> has Oracle ever NOT ruined anything?
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3726[18:58:52] <InvisibleRasta_> idk i dont know them, personally they didnt do anything to me
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3730[18:59:05] <InvisibleRasta_> except not offering me the package in debian
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3732[18:59:07] <InvisibleRasta_> :P
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3734[18:59:40] <petn-randall> They killed mysql and openoffice, so I'm not that surprised.
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3740[19:01:47] <nyov> wish they would kill java, too :p
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3742[19:02:19] <greycat> some beasts need a greater number of steely knives
3743[19:02:28] <nyov> though I consider the death of Sun totally Googles fault
3744[19:02:33] <ratrace> or a python to choke it to death
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3752[19:05:26] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> They've kept ZFS crypto proprietary, so that's one thing they've done directly to me.
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3755[19:06:15] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Considering that Oracle Java is now unusable by normal users, it's fair to say they have killed their version of Java.
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3757[19:06:38] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> The moment it stops being freeware is the moment normal users disregard it
3758[19:06:55] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> (Then there's the fact GraalVM works better and is easier to install)
3759[19:07:46] *** Joins: openface (~of@replaced-ip)
3760[19:07:51] <InvisibleRasta_> Aurora_iz_kosmos, GraalVM supports vdi disk images?
3761[19:08:00] <InvisibleRasta_> so i dont have to reinstall all my vboxes?
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3765[19:08:38] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> InvisibleRasta_: GraalVM is a Java (among other) interpreters.
3766[19:09:10] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> InvisibleRasta_: It's not a virtualization solution like KVM,Xen,VirtualBox,etc
3767[19:09:45] <Ede|Popede> it is even less than free, it is disgusting: replaced-url
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3769[19:10:21] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> wow. screw those guys.
3770[19:11:11] <Ede|Popede> oracle is already the next sco. something that deserves to be buried and forgotten. and noone shall ever use their name again.
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3773[19:11:27] <GNU\colossus> Ede|Popede, that was true 10 years ago
3774[19:11:39] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> I'm not super sure why KVM/Xen aren't more commonly used. They can do most of what VMWare can. And oVirt, among others, can do the fancy datacenter management stuff.
3775[19:11:40] <GNU\colossus> at least 10 years ago, actually
3776[19:11:41] *** Joins: frgo_ (~frgo@replaced-ip)
3777[19:11:50] <jhutchins_wk> Ahem. #debian-offtopic please.
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3783[19:13:03] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Xen => XCP, oVirt => KVM
3784[19:13:31] <nyov> Ede|Popede: wait what, VMware is now Oracle?
3785[19:13:50] <greycat> I'm confused too. Are VMware and Virtualbox related?
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3787[19:14:23] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> huh. nvm. There's more than just oVirt around.
3788[19:14:26] <Ede|Popede> also it seems i confused vmware and virtualbox. but i read Oracle near both of them.
3789[19:14:44] *** Joins: dewowzer (dewowzer@replaced-ip)
3790[19:14:52] <greycat> there's no oracle on vmware's wikipedia page, at least
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3793[19:15:25] <nyov> now that would be a scoop
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3797[19:15:57] <nyov> their virtualization solutions are kinda competitors though, so who knows what might happen?
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3800[19:16:29] <petn-randall> Where is the die() function for /bin/sh documented? If I internet search it I just find German articles.
3801[19:16:45] <petn-randall> Because die is a German article.
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3804[19:16:50] <greycat> It's not a prebuilt thing. It's a function that you commonly write for your own scripts.
3805[19:17:05] <greycat> see also replaced-url
3806[19:17:16] <petn-randall> Ah, reading the shell script closely helps. Indeed!
3807[19:17:24] <greycat> although... god, the stupid people got hold of that page and ruined it
3808[19:18:06] <petn-randall> heh
3809[19:18:09] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> archive.org?
3810[19:18:18] <greycat> no, wikis have history
3811[19:18:26] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> If it wasn't vandalized too
3812[19:18:50] <greycat> It's not vandalized. Just really dumb.
3813[19:18:50] <nt80> it's more like git log
3814[19:19:03] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Ah, I see
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3816[19:20:38] <Sark> Hrm, just stumbled on a *nasty* bug in current Debian. Been having issues and I finally figured out the source of the problem when trying to manually install a package with dpkg. The root user's path is not properly populated, so it doesn't have /usr/sbin, /sbin, etc in it.
3817[19:20:49] *** Joins: oish_ (~charlie@replaced-ip)
3818[19:20:55] <Sark> This is a clean install, so it's nothing I broke.
3819[19:20:55] *** Joins: m0u (~m0u@replaced-ip)
3820[19:21:06] <BCMM> Sark: that's not a problem with the root user, it's a change in how su works
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3822[19:21:14] <BCMM> Sark: replaced-url
3823[19:21:27] <Sark> No, when you su to root it should populate the PATH environment variable.
3824[19:21:38] <Sark> This is a bug. A bad one at that.
3825[19:21:48] <BCMM> Sark: it's one of those cases where you can do the *right* thing, that most users probably intended to do, or the *correct* thing, that the tool is expected to do by long-standing convention
3826[19:21:54] <BCMM> Sark: basically, just use `su -`
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3831[19:22:28] <Sark> Right, but su - will run the whole root login shell, that's different than su.
3832[19:22:34] <Sark> I mean, functionally the same most of the tim.
3833[19:22:36] <Sark> time.
3834[19:22:50] <Sark> But it doesn't change the fact that su is broken. lol
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3836[19:23:41] <BCMM> Sark: the link i sent you also tells you how to get the old (technically incorrect, but only technically) behaviour back
3837[19:24:06] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> sudo -i
3838[19:24:40] <Sark> I'll read through it and fix it. This one really threw me off though, and it's one of those things that should be kept working as default.
3839[19:24:49] <Sark> I can't imagine how many other people hit this too.
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3841[19:25:00] * Aurora_iz_kosmos never noticed
3842[19:25:04] <BCMM> Sark: but really, you should be always be using "su -" anyway - mixing your user's environment variables with root is a bad idea, and changing the $PATH only hides that problem slightly
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3845[19:25:50] <Sark> I specifically *want* to mix the environment variables, and I use su for more than just becoming root, you can use it to become another user from root too.
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3847[19:26:03] <Sark> This is how su has worked since forever.
3848[19:26:07] <Sark> Breaking it is not a good idea.
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3850[19:26:27] <BCMM> Sark: actually, it isn't. the new, annoying behaviour is more backwards compatible
3851[19:26:30] <Sark> And if I really wanted to use su -, I'd use su -.
3852[19:26:42] <greycat> !buster su
3853[19:26:43] <dpkg> In buster, su no longer overrides PATH by default, requiring that you use "su -" or "su -l" for login shells (which is not really a new thing at all...). To approximate the previous behaviour, put "ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes" in /etc/login.defs. See replaced-url
3854[19:26:43] <BCMM> well, *why* don't you want su -?
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3857[19:27:09] <Aurora_iz_kosmos> Sark: The manpage has the info for that. '-m'
3858[19:27:15] <Sark> Because I want to run root commands, as root, without envoking root's entire login shell?
3859[19:27:25] <greycat> Sark: I understand you.
3860[19:27:31] <greycat> even if nobody else does
3861[19:27:34] <BCMM> Sark: what's the use-case for specifically wanting your user's environment preserved (except for a few variables)?
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3866[19:29:28] <BCMM> in any case, this isn't something debian specifically decided to change to mess with people. it's just that debian changed from shadow su to util-linux su, and this is how util-linux su has always worked
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3868[19:30:32] <jhutchins_wk> Sark: Actually, requiring - has been the upstream default since before Linux. The ability to leave it off was a kludge for linux newbies, and it taught them bad habids, so it was eventually returned to the original. It was never done in some distributions.
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3871[19:30:58] <greycat> It's something that a small number of Debian developers decided to change, without really caring how it would affect their user base. It's justified by "Red Hat has always worked this way, so how bad can it be".
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3873[19:31:27] <Sark> There are many reasons I don't use Red Hat... if I wanted Red Hat behavior, I'd use Red Hat. I use Debian.
3874[19:31:31] <greycat> jhutchins_wk: no, you are simply wrong here. Every commercial Unix has a different behavior.
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3876[19:32:19] <greycat> Some of them change PATH. Maybe even most of them. It's really hard to find documentation on it.
3877[19:32:33] <Sark> But, when root's login shell is different than my login shell, with different parmeters, I don't always want to actually execute root's login like that, I just want to be root, with root powers, with the correct PATH.
3878[19:32:48] <Sark> But still be where I was, how I was.
3879[19:33:13] <jhutchins_wk> greycat: So is there an option for the current setup that will let him do that?
3880[19:33:30] <greycat> Yes. It's documented on the wiki and in the bot's factoid.
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3882[19:33:55] <greycat> You get an extra error message on login, sometimes, but you can ignore it.
3883[19:34:15] *** Joins: Mibbit (~realname@replaced-ip)
3884[19:34:48] <spacebug^> I have always used 'su -'. Don't know if I got that from my slackware years or elsewhere
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3889[19:35:27] <Sark> The most obvious case of this is when you do su -, you login as root. As if you were root. You're now suddenly in root's home directory, not where you were.
3890[19:35:34] <Sark> Which is annoying.
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3894[19:37:04] <Sark> I want to be me... until I need to execute some stuff that needs to be root - and I'm almost never going to want to be doing that from root's home directory, I'd want to execute it from wherever I have the code I want to run as root, and I'd probably already be there, but logged in as me.
3895[19:37:09] <Stx> So just run su without the dash and say in your $PWD :-)
3896[19:37:18] <Stx> s/say/stay/g
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3898[19:38:33] <rainfyre> Sark: sudo su ?
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3903[19:39:41] <greycat> HP-UX 11i, su(1) says "If the - option is omitted ... If the new user name is root, the path and prompt variables are reset: PATH=/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/sbin PS1=# ..."
3904[19:40:10] <greycat> for the record, HP-UX did a UsrMerge long, long ago. /bin is a symlink to /usr/bin
3905[19:40:22] <greycat> but /sbin is not a symlink
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3918[19:45:09] <AquaL1te> hi, how do people here manage multiple interfaces/ips on a debian host with ansible? can someone share some examples? i've been using host_vars for a while and then use a template to buildup a config. but it's getting too complex. i would like to see how other people handle this
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3920[19:45:27] <greycat> Solaris, replaced-url
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3924[19:46:04] <ratrace> AquaL1te: I don't use hostvars to autodetect IPs. network config is explicit host_var declaration
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3926[19:46:39] <ratrace> and with that it's just a matter of a nice simple /etc/network/interfaces template with a for-loop
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3932[19:49:17] <ratrace> greycat: SMF is solaris' systemd
3933[19:49:27] <AquaL1te> ratrace: how is that different from what i just described? :) can you show how you do it? maybe you do it better.
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3935[19:50:21] <ratrace> AquaL1te: host_vars is a directory with yaml files per host. "hostvars" is a key in templates which includes autodtected facts. I thought you meant using that.
3936[19:51:11] <ratrace> and I see indeed you said you've been using "host_vars" .... sorry, it's late, misread what you said
3937[19:51:12] <AquaL1te> ratrace: true, but i mentioned host_vars
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3940[19:51:29] <ratrace> AquaL1te: well anyway, that's the simplest thing you can do.
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3942[19:52:35] <InvisibleRasta> guys id need to have an android virtualmachine or emulator with gaps (google play store) i heard about anbox, but i think that the package provided by debian is without it
3943[19:52:43] <InvisibleRasta> what options do i have
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3945[19:53:25] <AquaL1te> can you show your host_var setup? and how you process it in your template? because i don't think it scales very well when network setups become more complex. i personally prefer the way redhat based systems organize the network, it's also easier to automate. but that's off topic. just pointing out that i can do it. but on debian it's different
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3948[19:54:16] <greycat> If you want one file per network interface, you can make separate files in /etc/network/interfaces.d/
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3956[19:55:13] <johnfg> hi folks
3957[19:55:16] <pc3oot> moin moin
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3962[19:56:52] <wwilliam> Hello, If i have a file created at 04:00 and at 15:00 I changed the name using mv would not the modification time changed also to 15:00?
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3965[19:57:07] <greycat> no
3966[19:57:12] <wwilliam> why?
3967[19:57:15] <johnfg> all under /var/replaced-url
3968[19:57:22] <greycat> because you didn't write any new content into the file
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3970[19:57:27] <wwilliam> Thanks
3971[19:57:31] <wwilliam> greycat:
3972[19:57:44] <AquaL1te> greycat: true, i've been looking at examples, like this one as well: replaced-url
3973[19:57:48] <johnfg> should I be able, still as user be able to manipulate whatever files/directories are under html?
3974[19:57:50] <AquaL1te> compatible with many logical operations
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3977[19:58:36] <AquaL1te> so, if there are people with some examples, please show me :) just to compare different ways of thinking
3978[19:58:41] <greycat> johnfg: Depends on who owns the files, and what their permissions are. You, or your sysadmin, are the ones who would be setting that up.
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4104[20:02:39] <pc3oot> whats up?
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4124[20:06:17] <Akuw> hi, what memory test is there to run that from live usb
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4127[20:07:42] <petn-randall> Akuw: There should be memtest86 that you can pick from grub.
4128[20:07:54] <Akuw> ok
4129[20:07:54] <petn-randall> hi pc3oot, do you have a Debian support question?
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4141[20:14:13] <AquaL1te> ratrace: as an example: replaced-url
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4144[20:14:59] <AquaL1te> i do have such as structure, but it's getting harder to query the right information for it. not just for interfaces, but also for services. therefore i would like to see as many examples of how people approach this
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4146[20:16:20] <Akuw> in debian live 10 there is not Memtest
4147[20:16:26] <greycat> install it
4148[20:17:23] <petn-randall> Akuw: Then you need a different image that contains it. grml has it, for example.
4149[20:18:03] *** Joins: Hal2001 (~anon@replaced-ip)
4150[20:18:11] <petn-randall> Akuw: You can also use memtester, but that is a userspace program and as such doesn't test the complete RAM.
4151[20:18:12] <pc3oot> apt install memtest?
4152[20:18:20] <ratrace> AquaL1te: net_ip4: 10.11.12.13/24 net_ip6: .../64 is what I have per host, using lists instead of scalar, for groups with multiple addrs, then I stick that into a simple for-loop
4153[20:18:40] <Akuw> i am downloading grml
4154[20:18:45] *** Quits: electro33 (uid613@replaced-ip) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
4155[20:18:47] <petn-randall> pc3oot: There's memtest86 or memtester.
4156[20:18:52] <Hal2001> Is there a gui front end to manage user accounts on xfce?
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4159[20:19:13] <ratrace> AquaL1te: the example above is an example in writing a thousands words article for the DO $200 bounty program
4160[20:19:30] <ratrace> the bigger source blocks, the "better" the article
4161[20:19:32] <petn-randall> Hal2001: I don't think so.
4162[20:19:49] <petn-randall> Hal2001: But if there's a gnome tool to do it, you can use that, as both gnome and xfce use GTK.
4163[20:20:13] *** Joins: phdeswer (~phdeswer@replaced-ip)
4164[20:20:20] <Hal2001> will try
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4180[20:24:58] <AquaL1te> ratrace: i have that approach, but i do need key/value lookups for certain services. it's not just to setup an interface. the indexes of a list aren't safe enough, indexes can change, keys do not. i'll check the ansible channel
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4184[20:25:37] <Akuw> my ram memory is bad
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4189[20:26:12] <ratrace> AquaL1te: what services? I thought you were asking how to deal with multiple IPs
4190[20:26:26] *** Joins: sptnx (senate@replaced-ip)
4191[20:26:45] <Hal2001> petn-randall, installed gnome tweak tool but there is no user accounts option. i don't think it will work.
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4194[20:27:50] <nyov> Akuw: how bad?
4195[20:28:40] <Akuw> well, Lenovo bios test reported, and running debian live stop some times
4196[20:29:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1573
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4198[20:29:57] <nyov> Akuw: run memtest, as you're intending, and if it's a specific region, you can work around that
4199[20:30:07] <spacebug^> have you recently upgraded ram? Or changed any settings in bios?
4200[20:30:07] <nyov> Akuw: replaced-url
4201[20:31:00] <nyov> also see the answer beneath that
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4204[20:33:36] <Akuw> i started grml, so how can i run memtest?
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4206[20:34:39] *** Quits: Hal2001 (~anon@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4207[20:35:50] <Akuw> spacebug^: no, this problem is reported by user
4208[20:36:09] <Akuw> he said 2 months ago start with problems
4209[20:36:10] <ratrace> AquaL1te: also, inb4 someone in #ansible mentions "roles" ... keep in mind that in your templates you can't get info like "what roles is this host in?". Thta's the biggest design flaw of ansible, reason I stopped using roles and did custom list of "roles" which can easily be queried in templates.
4210[20:37:06] <ratrace> Akuw: apt install memtest86+ . in debian. don't care about other distros. "based on" is invalid answer.
4211[20:37:15] *** Quits: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
4212[20:37:18] <spacebug^> Akuw: ah ok, then it's probably not a timeing issue or something like
4213[20:37:23] *** stwalker1ter is now known as stwalkerster
4214[20:38:08] <busch> Got a challenge here. I need to install debian on a computer remotely where currently windows server is running. I have access to the network through a VPN. Is "win32-loader" what I am looking for? How can I make sure that an SSH will be started (with a known password) after reboot?
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4217[20:39:30] <petn-randall> busch: I don't know of a way to install Debian remotely like that.
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4220[20:39:47] <petn-randall> busch: Your safest bet is to travel there and install it physically.
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4223[20:40:34] <nyov> ooh, a challenge
4224[20:40:46] <busch> petn-randall, The system is 433km away from here :)
4225[20:40:51] <nyov> busch: any type of BMC on that machine?
4226[20:40:59] <busch> nyov, Nothing
4227[20:41:01] *** Joins: marbar (~marbar@replaced-ip)
4228[20:41:13] <petn-randall> busch: Pay someone to do it.
4229[20:41:16] *** Joins: magic_ninja (~sparkie1@replaced-ip)
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4231[20:41:51] <petn-randall> busch: All solutions will probably be hardly tested and likely to fail.
4232[20:41:58] <ratrace> what about that project to boot into ubuntu straight from windows
4233[20:42:09] <nyov> well. you'd need to somehow reformat a fat32 partition at the beginning of the disk and debootstrap onto that inside windows?
4234[20:42:13] <petn-randall> busch: Does the server have a public ip?
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4236[20:42:31] *** Parts: jehorn (631acdbf@replaced-ip) ()
4237[20:42:37] <marbar> hello all. i just updated from stretch to buster, and now my computer won't start. the most conspicuous (and repeated) error message before the screen goes black: "Failed to start RPC bind portmap service"
4238[20:42:38] <nyov> ratrace: link?
4239[20:42:47] <marbar> and when i boot into safe mode
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4244[20:43:23] <ratrace> nyov: google up WUBI
4245[20:43:23] *** Joins: m1dnight_ (~m1dnight@replaced-ip)
4246[20:43:24] <marbar> and do "service rpcbind start" it likewise fails. "service rpcbind status" shows me more of that message
4247[20:43:44] <busch> petn-randall, No public IP
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4252[20:44:22] <petn-randall> busch: How are you currently accessing it?
4253[20:44:32] <marbar> does anyone here have any experience with rpcbind and/or this issue? thanks :)
4254[20:44:32] <nyov> ratrace: interesting!
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4257[20:45:01] <busch> petn-randall, through a VPN
4258[20:45:04] <greycat> marbar: do you have an /etc/default/rpcbind file, or an /etc/rpcbind.conf file? those are mentioned in the systemd unit...
4259[20:45:16] *** Parts: steinex (~steinex@replaced-ip) ()
4260[20:45:34] <petn-randall> busch: It's not a hetzner machine, right?
4261[20:45:53] <marbar> thank you greycat! i'll check...
4262[20:45:57] <busch> petn-randall, no
4263[20:46:29] <marbar> greycat, i don't have either!
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4265[20:46:48] *** Joins: michaelni (~michael@replaced-ip)
4266[20:47:16] <greycat> That's good, because you're not supposed to... but that was my one idea for what might be causing your problem. Maybe you should try running the daemon directly and see what happens.
4267[20:47:25] *** Quits: stella__ (~gpap@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4268[20:47:50] <nyov> rpcbind failing like that should not break a boot?
4269[20:48:07] <greycat> First check whether it's already running, and if not, try running /sbin/rpcbind -f -w directly? Just a thought, anyway.
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4271[20:48:15] <marbar> nyov it looked like lots of stuff failed to start due to rpcbind failing
4272[20:48:48] <ratrace> nyov: unless nfs is failing for deps and the mount is not nofail
4273[20:48:50] <marbar> greycat "service rpcbind status" gives me "Active: failed" + those error messages
4274[20:48:50] <busch> petn-randall, Maybe I could use replaced-url
4275[20:49:10] <greycat> I would bypass the service/systemctl layer at this point. ps -ef | grep rpcbind
4276[20:49:12] <marbar> "/sbin/rpcbind -f -w" does nothing, as far as i can tell
4277[20:49:23] <nyov> marbar: are you using that service, or is it just installed by happenstance?
4278[20:50:11] <nyov> busch: that only works if the machine is set up to boot from PXE in the bios, and you have a pxe boot server in the lan
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4281[20:51:09] <marbar> greycat: "ps -ef | grep rpcbind" shows no processes (besides the grep)
4282[20:51:23] <petn-randall> busch: That requires that your server supports PXE boot in the BIOS.
4283[20:51:24] <busch> nyov, PXE boot server would be possible to setup. But I dont know if the BIOS settings on the target server is configured to PXE boot
4284[20:51:32] *** Quits: jackedin (~jackedin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4285[20:51:33] <petn-randall> And that it's enabled :)
4286[20:51:41] *** Quits: Guest19180 (~prince@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
4287[20:51:42] <greycat> marbar: even after you ran /sbin/rpcbind -f -w ?
4288[20:51:57] <marbar> right
4289[20:52:14] <marbar> that command also doesn't produce any output
4290[20:52:22] <nyov> well, technically, you could boot from a stick with ipxe on it
4291[20:52:22] <greycat> Well then, it's just plain broken, and your next step will be figuring out why it won't run.
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4293[20:52:47] <marbar> nyov: i don't know anything about rpcbind, not aware of how it's being used really
4294[20:53:34] <nyov> marbar: then you probably don't use it, and it should be safe to uninstall anyway? do you use nfs?
4295[20:53:53] *** Joins: kali_ (~kali@replaced-ip)
4296[20:54:11] <greycat> NIS or NFS would be the most common, by far
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4301[20:56:05] <marbar> nyov: i don't think i use nfs -- that's for accessing remote filesystems, right? i do have one encrypted partition, but i don't see why NFS would be part of that .... (not sure)
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4303[20:56:50] <marbar> but NIS and NFS are both for remote stuff? like shouldn't come up on a laptop that's not connecting to anything else?
4304[20:56:54] <busch> petn-randall, nyov God bless. I've reached somebody onsite that has a 4GB USB drive
4305[20:56:57] <Peyam> Hi, Im running Debian 10. everytime I go away from the computer and it goes to sleep. and when I'm bake and wake the computer all I see is a blank screen
4306[20:57:12] <Peyam> then I have to go to tty and restart lightdm
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4311[20:57:38] <greycat> NIS is for user accounts (and other things) defined in a LAN server, rather than individually defined on each LAN client
4312[20:57:58] <greycat> NFS is for sharing file systems between unixes/linuxes
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4316[20:58:33] <Organism> how do i clear my dns
4317[20:58:37] *** Joins: Telcoguy_ (~quassel@replaced-ip)
4318[20:59:00] <greycat> you start by figuring out where what "my dns" actually is
4319[20:59:09] <greycat> where/what
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4321[20:59:25] <Organism> everyone knows what dns is
4322[20:59:35] <greycat> are you running a local resolver? are you using your ISP's nameserver? google's public nameserver?
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4324[21:00:33] <Organism> on my remote server the A record is updated
4325[21:00:40] <Organism> but on my computer its not
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4327[21:00:46] <Organism> when i do ping
4328[21:01:03] <greycat> So you have TWO systems, and they're using TWO different resolvers, and one of them has an old cached value?
4329[21:01:05] *** Quits: Peyam (~maroufi@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4330[21:01:15] <Organism> i guess
4331[21:01:24] <greycat> You restart the resolver whose cache you want to flush. Then NEXT TIME AROUND, you lower the TTL on your domain before you make your changes.
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4339[21:03:24] <greycat> You can't reset the caches of every resolver on the planet, so you'll just have to wait for your old TTL to expire before you can be assured that your changes have become visible globally.
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4342[21:04:29] <Organism> it seems something is messed
4343[21:05:31] <greycat> you still haven't answered the basic question, where is your resolver on the system whose behavior you do not like? what's in /etc/resolv.conf on that system?
4344[21:05:41] <Organism> i dont know
4345[21:05:46] <Organism> its my computer
4346[21:05:52] <Organism> thats being weird
4347[21:05:53] <greycat> this is the part where you go read that file and see
4348[21:06:48] <Organism> ok i see 2 nameserver
4349[21:07:02] <Organism> 192 and 10
4350[21:07:30] <greycat> if you mean 192.168.x.y and 10.a.b.c those are both local addresses, not publically routable, so they're within your organization or LAN
4351[21:07:37] *** Quits: NetTerminalGene (~NetTermin@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4352[21:07:40] <greycat> talk to your network admins
4353[21:07:51] <Organism> i am admining this
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4357[21:08:45] <greycat> well, now you know the IP addresses of the DNS resolvers, so you can go from there
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4361[21:09:28] <Organism> its a windows server
4362[21:09:42] *** Quits: xalen7 (~ztr8x@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4363[21:09:44] <greycat> Good luck with that.
4364[21:09:58] <Organism> damit
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4370[21:14:24] <nyov> busch: win32-loader and wubi do look like they would work for the task. but in case the install breaks, you should really have some hands on-site
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4377[21:19:32] <jhutchins_wk> Organism: On Windows it is possible to flush the DNS cache, but it would be best to ask in ##windows. I haven't done anything except use a terminal on windows in twenty years.
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4380[21:20:02] <AquaL1te> ratrace: i also mentioned services ;) well, any kind of service you can think of. i'm looking for a single source of truth that can be used throughout an infrastructure. needs to be scalable and maintainable. that's a challenge. what i have now served me okayish, but it needs an upgrade.
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4389[21:23:54] <ratrace> AquaL1te: I use a concept of "service role" (not serVER role). like, each host has a list of these roles it belongs to, eg. service_roles = ["nginx", "postgres", "foo", "bar"] and then in the main playbook I include individual service role TASK file, conditionally.... when: "nginx" in service_roles for example
4390[21:24:02] *** Quits: Scribus (~Scribus@replaced-ip) (Quit: bye)
4391[21:24:19] <ratrace> AquaL1te: this way the templates have a list of service roles a host belongs to. you can't have that list if you used ansible's roles.
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4394[21:24:52] <ratrace> AquaL1te: %s/ = / : /
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4412[21:33:37] <AquaL1te> ratrace: i have that as well. how does that relate to having a single source of truth for these services?
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4418[21:37:43] <ratrace> AquaL1te: because the source of truth is the group_vars with host_vars overrides, at least in my case
4419[21:37:53] <ratrace> separate policy (vars) from mechanism (tasks)
4420[21:38:19] * R5859 Good Night
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4425[21:41:35] <AquaL1te> ratrace: i have the feeling you want to help, but want to answer too eagerly without really getting the problem. i got some interesting links from the ansible channel. i'll check them out. in any case, thanks :)
4426[21:41:47] <openbsdtai123> there is an issue on debian and devian, but not on bsd, the file /usr/..../beamerbasesection.sty misses the definition of \inserttocsectionnumber which gives no ENDNOTE for presentations (2016,2017 texlive)!
4427[21:42:03] <ryouma> is there any kind of fs or memory checking i can do while it is mounting? i had contents of a dir disappear and a variable chagne for no apparent reason while running a program.
4428[21:42:29] *** geordie_ is now known as geordie
4429[21:42:35] <ryouma> um, while running
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4432[21:43:06] <openbsdtai123> there is an issue on debian and devian, but not on bsd, the file /usr/..../beamerbasesection.sty misses the definition of \inserttocsectionnumber which gives no ENDNOTE for presentations (2016,2017 texlive)!
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4438[21:44:31] <seth_> hello
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4448[21:51:06] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: which version of Debian are you using?
4449[21:52:14] *** Quits: chachan (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
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4452[21:53:02] <BCMM> stable has texlive 2018. if you're on texlive 2016, you're probably using oldstable.
4453[21:53:17] <BCMM> (i don't know where you got texlive 2017 from)
4454[21:54:30] *** Joins: cdown (~cdown@replaced-ip)
4455[21:54:39] <openbsdtai123> please find the bug of debian ... replaced-url
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4459[21:55:52] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: hello. can you read this?
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4463[21:56:56] <openbsdtai123> read what?
4464[21:57:29] *** the_imposter is now known as gone-till-the-fu
4465[21:57:36] <greycat> 15:51 BCMM> openbsdtai123: which version of Debian are you using?
4466[21:57:43] *** Joins: shoogz (~shoogz@replaced-ip)
4467[21:58:02] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: it looks like you're using Debian Stretch, which is an old version now. the reason it works on bsd is probably that your bsd system is actually up to date, so you have a newer version of texlive.
4468[21:58:05] <openbsdtai123> all necessary infos are into ... please find the bug of debian ... replaced-url
4469[21:58:19] <openbsdtai123> This is kinda of worrying because it means that latex is not stable.
4470[21:58:45] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: texlive is not the same thing as latex
4471[21:58:53] <openbsdtai123> I know
4472[21:58:56] <openbsdtai123> you know what I mean
4473[21:59:00] <BCMM> no, i do not
4474[21:59:16] <BCMM> latex is extremely stable. texlive packages change, a lot.
4475[21:59:31] *** Quits: mmfood (~mmfood@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4476[21:59:34] <openbsdtai123> yeah, but you need pdflatex right?
4477[21:59:46] <BCMM> anyway, have you considered upgrading debian, which would automatically get you on to a more recent version of texlive?
4478[22:00:07] <openbsdtai123> why? actually tex is out there since ages, latex later, and texlive later.
4479[22:00:09] *** Joins: vOYtEC (~vOYtEC@replaced-ip)
4480[22:00:22] <openbsdtai123> Today, texlive should be sufficiently mature to compile endnote ;) right?
4481[22:00:32] *** Quits: enoq (~enoq@replaced-ip) (Quit: enoq)
4482[22:00:32] <openbsdtai123> (aka bib file).
4483[22:02:24] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: i'm not really sure what sort of an outcome you're hoping for here...
4484[22:02:39] *** Quits: soee (~soee@replaced-ip) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
4485[22:02:57] <openbsdtai123> me neither... this is sad actually
4486[22:03:15] <yibotg> nvz:let me see,maybe that is the reason,I had updated the debian from 9 to 10 somedays ago.sorry for the long absense.
4487[22:03:15] *** Quits: dastier (~dastier@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4488[22:03:22] <greycat> "I found a bug in a relatively obscure package on oldstable! Debian is BROKEN!!" "Yes, you are right, o wise one, and for our failure, we will all die now."
4489[22:03:29] <openbsdtai123> maybe... how can you compile a beamer with stable texlive (old stuff) and with BIB endnote into it? with ieeee
4490[22:03:39] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: you do understand that you're running an outdated version of debian which will become unsupported later this year, right?
4491[22:04:06] *** Quits: alpernebbi (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Quit: alpernebbi)
4492[22:04:06] <openbsdtai123> But... I am thinking that beamer + endnote is not new and not a revolution.
4493[22:04:11] <yibotg> nyov: thank you, the intel-microcode has been installed.
4494[22:04:20] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: i don't really know where the error is coming from, and it's quite possible that it is a failure in debian's packaging
4495[22:04:21] <openbsdtai123> Can we try a code together tex and bib to see if that works?
4496[22:04:45] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: but i don't think anybody is going to go back and fix it when, frankly, everybody else has already upgraded
4497[22:05:09] <openbsdtai123> I would like to find where is inserttocsection ? do you know?
4498[22:05:28] <openbsdtai123> I need the definition of inserttocsectionnumber
4499[22:05:53] *** Joins: petemo (~petemo@replaced-ip)
4500[22:06:00] *** Joins: ugo (~chatzilla@replaced-ip)
4501[22:06:19] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: probably in beamerbasetoc.sty, not beamerbasesection.sty
4502[22:06:39] *** Joins: bertbob (~bertbob@replaced-ip)
4503[22:07:23] <BCMM> but, um, are you not just doing \documentclass{beamer}?
4504[22:07:28] <greycat> The normal reaction to "I found a bug in olstable" would be "see if you can reproduce it in stable; if so, file a bug report".
4505[22:07:39] *** Parts: yibotg (~yibotg@replaced-ip) ("[quit bye]")
4506[22:07:50] <ugo> list
4507[22:08:12] <openbsdtai123> a bug report for old debian is outdated...
4508[22:08:33] <openbsdtai123> Can I fix it by hand or apt-get ???
4509[22:08:59] <openbsdtai123> If I can replace tehe beamerbasetoc.sty with 2018 or 2019 one?
4510[22:09:08] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: sorry to repeat myself, but i'm not sure if you've understood this: we are suggesting that you might consider upgrading your whole operating system
4511[22:09:21] *** Quits: flo2marsnet_ (~flo2marsn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
4512[22:09:40] *** Quits: ugo (~chatzilla@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4513[22:09:54] <openbsdtai123> errrta some newss
4514[22:10:07] *** Joins: zyun (~zyun@replaced-ip)
4515[22:10:10] <openbsdtai123> In the 2016,2017, there is actually inserttocsectionnumber!!
4516[22:10:26] <openbsdtai123> So why does it fail to find it? --- I cant explain.
4517[22:11:53] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: maybe it's a bug. why don't you see if it's already been fixed in the intervening two years?
4518[22:12:45] <openbsdtai123> Because I need a fix for 2016, my friend needs to compile on the current deian wiht 2016,2017
4519[22:13:23] <greycat> ...
4520[22:13:38] <openbsdtai123> can I take all the 2018 sty + cls of ../beamer and put it onto 2016 ?
4521[22:13:54] *** Joins: Peyam (~maroufi@replaced-ip)
4522[22:14:04] <openbsdtai123> we do try it? like that will break all
4523[22:14:26] *** Quits: ChubaDuba (~ChubaDuba@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4524[22:14:29] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: hang on, do you mean your friend wants to use the *current* debian release, but with an older version of texlive?
4525[22:14:34] <annadane> what does everyone use to generate passwords?
4526[22:14:45] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: or do you still not realise that you are not running the current version of debian?
4527[22:14:46] <annadane> i thought keepassx did it but apparently not
4528[22:14:55] <BCMM> annadane: the thing in firefox mostly
4529[22:15:03] <openbsdtai123> he wont upgrade, he needs a fix on this system right now...
4530[22:15:07] *** Quits: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4531[22:15:18] *** Joins: MenschZwoNull_ (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip)
4532[22:15:21] <openbsdtai123> I got now the idea to copy all sty from 2018 on this texlive ... he has.
4533[22:15:24] *** Joins: cliluw (~cliluw@replaced-ip)
4534[22:15:27] *** Joins: mYnDstrEAm (~mYnDstrEA@replaced-ip)
4535[22:15:33] <ryouma> annadane: good q. debian has a bunch of them like pwgen etc.
4536[22:15:50] <greycat> !literal right now
4537[22:15:50] <dpkg> "right now" is "on, so looks like it does recognizes the card"
4538[22:15:57] <greycat> !forget right now
4539[22:15:59] <dpkg> i forgot right now, greycat
4540[22:16:00] <ryouma> apg, urandom | base64
4541[22:16:13] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: you could just download a new version of texlive and install it in your home directory
4542[22:16:18] *** Quits: Peyam (~maroufi@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4543[22:16:20] *** Joins: hatter_ (~Richard@replaced-ip)
4544[22:16:38] <BCMM> forget the debian-provided one; don't try and overwrite it with texlive 2019 piece-by-piece
4545[22:17:31] <annadane> ok, so keepassxc does generate pw's
4546[22:17:35] <annadane> keepassx doesn't
4547[22:17:35] <openbsdtai123> I backup the dir... I copied the sty 2018 onto the sty 2016 in to the beamer dir.
4548[22:17:43] <openbsdtai123> It seems now broken...
4549[22:17:51] <greycat> Shocking.
4550[22:17:51] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: yes. yes, it would be.
4551[22:17:58] <BCMM> that's because you broke it on purpose.
4552[22:18:11] * ratrace gasps
4553[22:18:13] *** Quits: MenschZwoNull (~MenschZwo@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
4554[22:18:18] <openbsdtai123> wait...
4555[22:18:21] <greycat> "Purge the Debian package and use upstream" is a pretty sensible suggestion.
4556[22:18:22] <openbsdtai123> it worked !!!! wow
4557[22:18:26] *** Quits: c0rnelius_ (~Apple@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4558[22:18:33] *** Joins: Peyam (~maroufi@replaced-ip)
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4560[22:18:37] <Peyam> Hi
4561[22:18:50] <openbsdtai123> the compilation of beamer with references worked with those files...
4562[22:18:54] *** Joins: DDeTooW (~DDeTooW@replaced-ip)
4563[22:18:55] <Peyam> Do you guys know any nice strategic game for linux ? a free one?
4564[22:19:04] <BCMM> Peyam: 0ad
4565[22:19:19] <ratrace> freeciv
4566[22:19:38] <Peyam> freeciv looks old
4567[22:19:39] *** Joins: overyander (~overyande@replaced-ip)
4568[22:19:40] *** Quits: DDeTooW (~DDeTooW@replaced-ip) (Client Quit)
4569[22:19:41] <BCMM> Peyam: it's in alpha, but already quite playable. in the spirit of Age of Empires, but not a straight clone.
4570[22:19:47] <BCMM> (0ad, i mean)
4571[22:19:48] *** Joins: Clarth (~Clarth@replaced-ip)
4572[22:20:00] <Peyam> BCMM, is it hard to learn?
4573[22:20:02] <openbsdtai123> wow I could fix texlive ... with this metho
4574[22:20:02] *** Joins: _till_ (~till@replaced-ip)
4575[22:20:03] <openbsdtai123> d
4576[22:20:06] <ratrace> Peyam: you get what you pay for. meanwhile, the gameplay is okay and doesn't really look that old
4577[22:20:09] <BCMM> Peyam: did you ever play age of empires?
4578[22:20:17] <Peyam> openbsdtai123, cool
4579[22:20:25] <BCMM> ratrace: i haven't played freeciv for ages. is the ai any good yet?
4580[22:20:28] <openbsdtai123> can we fix the deb texlive package??
4581[22:20:42] <openbsdtai123> is it possible that the *.deb file is fixed anyhow ?
4582[22:20:48] <Peyam> BCMM, no only Honor of Newerth and now the drop the linux support
4583[22:20:48] <ratrace> BCMM: I haven't either :)
4584[22:21:07] <Peyam> openbsdtai123, just install textlive. what do you mean?
4585[22:21:12] <tripkin> annadane: I have been using keepass2 for some time, and it generates passwords without issue
4586[22:21:17] <BCMM> openbsdtai123: stretch is obsolete. the fix is to just upgrade. i doubt anybody is interested in fixing stretch.
4587[22:21:28] <openbsdtai123> well beamer is broken visibly.... so my workaround works
4588[22:21:42] <BCMM> again, security support is ending in a few months, at which point hopefully everybody will have stopped using it
4589[22:21:44] <Peyam> BCMM, is it fun to play?
4590[22:21:53] <Peyam> and is it free?
4591[22:21:57] <openbsdtai123> So we could change the concerned files into the concerned deb and put it onto ftp.debian.org repos.
4592[22:22:22] *** Quits: cecile (~cecile@replaced-ip) (Quit: cecile)
4593[22:22:49] <BCMM> Peyam: yes and yes
4594[22:22:58] <Peyam> BCMM, thank you fam
4595[22:23:27] <BCMM> Peyam: it's an RTS, by the way. i don't know if that's what you were looking for.
4596[22:23:41] <openbsdtai123> I will make a package to fix the bug -- seems helpful..
4597[22:23:41] <Peyam> BCMM, what is RTS
4598[22:24:04] <ratrace> what about battle of westnoth?
4599[22:24:07] <BCMM> Peyam: real-time strategy (as opposed to turn-based)
4600[22:24:11] <greycat> wesnoth, only one 't'
4601[22:24:20] <Peyam> aha. cant I play against computer?
4602[22:24:33] *** Quits: petemo (~petemo@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4603[22:24:38] <ratrace> greycat: ah yes
4604[22:24:55] *** Joins: petemo (~petemo@replaced-ip)
4605[22:25:22] <marbar> greycat, thanks for your help so far. the buster upgrade seems to also have killed my internet, even plugged directly into the router (this is in safe mode). it seems like that will probably need to be fixed first.
4606[22:25:36] <petn-randall> busch: Lucky you!
4607[22:25:49] <ratrace> Battle for Wesnoth ... GPLv2 ... replaced-url
4608[22:25:56] <BCMM> Peyam: yes
4609[22:26:02] <ratrace> !info wesnoth
4610[22:26:10] <dpkg> wesnoth: (fantasy turn-based strategy game - complete suite (metapackage)), section games, is optional. Version: 1:1.14.9-1 (sid), Packaged size: 1 kB, Installed size: 6 kB
4611[22:26:10] <BCMM> (and the 0ad ai seems to play pretty well, unlike freeciv)
4612[22:27:19] <openbsdtai123> here my fix for texlive : replaced-url
4613[22:27:58] <openbsdtai123> I have added the files to fix the texlive... if you need to make a newer deb package, please check these files if possible. This would be great help for others that use beamer. I am sure that a lot are using beamer.
4614[22:28:45] *** Quits: fnaticrisk1 (~fnaticris@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
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4618[22:30:13] <greycat> Nobody is going to make a new version of texlive for Debian 9. Debian 9 is barely supported. It is definitely not going to get a new upstream version of an obscure package.
4619[22:30:17] *** Joins: Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip)
4620[22:30:20] <ratrace> come again, what's wrong with packaged beamer?
4621[22:30:28] *** Parts: petemo (~petemo@replaced-ip) ("Leaving")
4622[22:30:39] *** Joins: petemo (~petemo@replaced-ip)
4623[22:30:41] <openbsdtai123> If there is fix - so just implement it. There are lot of people to use it.
4624[22:31:06] <ratrace> openbsdtai123: fix for what?
4625[22:31:14] <openbsdtai123> for beamer
4626[22:31:30] *** Quits: zst (~z@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
4627[22:31:37] <openbsdtai123> all necessary infos are into ... please find the bug of debian ... replaced-url
4628[22:32:03] <ratrace> is that the texlive-latex-recommended package?
4629[22:32:08] *** Joins: dD_ (~dD_@replaced-ip)
4630[22:32:33] <greycat> He's incapable of communication. He insists that you read his termbin.com thing. He can't just tell you what the relevant pieces of information are.
4631[22:32:37] <greycat> And it's "for a friend".
4632[22:32:43] <ratrace> oic
4633[22:32:45] <greycat> And he can't tell you why he can't run stable, etc.
4634[22:32:46] <openbsdtai123> I havent checked, the one with the texlive-fix-2016-beamer-bib.tar.gz - see my website foss.html
4635[22:33:07] <openbsdtai123> I made a tarball tar.gz in my link above how to fix it.
4636[22:33:17] <ratrace> you're wasting your time
4637[22:33:36] <openbsdtai123> Thinking about other is never waste of time.
4638[22:33:54] <ratrace> openbsdtai123: quite likely nobody is using that in stretch
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4641[22:34:18] *** Joins: debchange (~debchange@replaced-ip)
4642[22:34:50] *** Joins: Nefertari (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip)
4643[22:34:58] <openbsdtai123> texlive 2017 is still being used for sure. We can about others on BSD even older archs.
4644[22:34:58] *** debchange is now known as Guest50243
4645[22:34:58] *** iz16 is now known as Guest97094
4646[22:35:24] <greycat> Has anyone managed to guess what the freaking package name is yet?
4647[22:35:39] <ratrace> greycat: texlive-latex-recommended
4648[22:35:43] <greycat> ,v texlive-latex-recommended
4649[22:35:44] <judd> Package: texlive-latex-recommended on amd64 -- jessie: 2014.20141024-2+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2014.20141024-2+deb8u1; stretch: 2016.20170123-5; buster: 2018.20190227-2; bullseye: 2019.20191208-4; sid: 2019.20191208-4
4650[22:35:56] <greycat> It's version 2018.20190227-2 in the current Debian release.
4651[22:36:01] <ratrace> yep
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4653[22:36:04] *** Joins: krabador (~krabador@replaced-ip)
4654[22:36:10] <ratrace> the whole suite is:
4655[22:36:11] *** Quits: finalbeta (~finalbeta@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
4656[22:36:13] <ratrace> ,v texlive
4657[22:36:15] <judd> Package: texlive on amd64 -- jessie: 2014.20141024-2+deb8u1; jessie-security: 2014.20141024-2+deb8u1; stretch: 2016.20170123-5; buster: 2018.20190227-2; bullseye: 2019.20191208-4; sid: 2019.20191208-4
4658[22:36:15] *** Quits: platvoeten (~platvoete@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4659[22:36:53] <openbsdtai123> Time to sleep. Good night! Thank you for discussion.
4660[22:37:01] <ratrace> openbsdtai123: the package wouldn't be in debian if it didn't work. debian purges packages that are broken, unmaintained, or can't be fixed for whatever reason
4661[22:37:16] <ratrace> so don't waste your time, upgrade to Debian Buster. Win.
4662[22:37:19] *** Quits: AquaL1te (~AquaL1te@replaced-ip) (Quit: leaving)
4663[22:37:27] *** Quits: Nefertiti (~Nefertiti@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
4664[22:37:41] <ryouma> freecraft is dead ondebian now?
4665[22:38:13] <BCMM> greycat: yeah sorry. he mentioned a filename at the start and i put it in apt-file.
4666[22:38:17] <openbsdtai123> On BSD we care about all people and all archs if possible.
4667[22:38:25] *** Quits: Sepultura (~quassel@replaced-ip##) (Quit: ##replaced-url
4668[22:38:43] <greycat> openbsdtai123: so if someone reports a bug in a 2 year old version of YourBSD, you will fix that bug? In the 2 year old release?
4669[22:38:46] <ryouma> debian bsd?
4670[22:38:49] <ratrace> openbsdtai123: no, even OpenBSD doesn't care about old, unsupported versions
4671[22:38:51] *** Joins: petemo (~petemo@replaced-ip)
4672[22:39:20] <greycat> And it's not even in the actual BSD system. It would be in a PORT. An obscure port with a very small user base.
4673[22:39:38] <ratrace> FreeBSD doesn't care about packages older than 3 months (the pace at which ports quarterly upgrades)
4674[22:40:04] <greycat> OpenBSD has a 6 month release cycle.
4675[22:40:15] <ratrace> 'nuff said :)
4676[22:40:18] <greycat> a 2 year old release would be 3-4 versions behind stable
4677[22:40:38] <BCMM> there are a lot more misunderstandings to unpack...
4678[22:40:59] *** Quits: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
4679[22:41:19] <BCMM> like the idea that, since latex is basically finished software, all texlive packages must be too (beamer has had hundreds of commits since that version)
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4681[22:41:38] *** Quits: earthundead (~earthunde@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4682[22:42:25] *** Parts: Vernius (~tomger@replaced-ip) ()
4683[22:42:50] <hatter_> I just did an nmap scan on a network and it seems the phone guy has given one of the phones the broadcast address on one of the phones, 192.168.0.255, what effect does this have on a network ?
4684[22:43:27] *** Joins: buttros (~buttros@replaced-ip)
4685[22:43:46] *** Joins: towo` (~towo@replaced-ip)
4686[22:43:46] *** Joins: mattmoose (~mattmoose@replaced-ip)
4687[22:43:57] <ratrace> is it even possible to do so, would routing even work
4688[22:44:07] *** Quits: BlueByte (~walther@replaced-ip) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
4689[22:44:43] <mattmoose> anybody know a good i3 channel?
4690[22:44:58] <greycat> there's an #i3 on this network with hundreds of users in it
4691[22:45:15] <mattmoose> ^thnx
4692[22:45:22] <BCMM> hatter_: how did you discover this? can you paste the nmap output with appropriate redactions?
4693[22:45:38] <BCMM> hatter_: also, consider asking ##networking cos this is just weird
4694[22:46:51] *** Quits: olegfusion (~olegfusio@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
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4696[22:47:34] *** Joins: Guest19180 (~prince@replaced-ip)
4697[22:47:45] <hatter_> bcmm, replaced-url
4698[22:47:48] <hatter_> at the bottom
4699[22:47:58] *** Joins: olegfusion (~olegfusio@replaced-ip)
4700[22:48:01] *** Joins: pringau (~pringau@replaced-ip)
4701[22:48:16] <tds> hatter_: is your network actually a /24? what does `ip addr` say?
4702[22:48:36] <hatter_> tds, it is
4703[22:48:37] *** Joins: Theroxat_ (~quassel@replaced-ip)
4704[22:48:50] <hatter_> inet 192.168.0.3/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global eth1
4705[22:48:54] <tds> that might just be a very dumb network stack on whatever that is
4706[22:49:10] <BCMM> hatter_: honestly i'm not sure what to make of that. i didn't even expect nmap to scan the broadcast addr
4707[22:49:26] <hatter_> bcmm, i am confused also
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4709[22:49:47] *** Joins: DDeTooW (~DDeTooW@replaced-ip)
4710[22:49:48] <BCMM> perhaps not everybody on the network agrees about what hte broadcast address is
4711[22:50:12] <tds> the phone responding from multiple IPs seems odd in the first place
4712[22:50:16] *** Joins: ConnardAuVirus (~Virus@replaced-ip)
4713[22:50:54] <hatter_> tds, there will be multiple phones, the panasonic entries have different mac addresses
4714[22:51:05] <tds> two of them are identical
4715[22:51:12] <BCMM> hatter_: tds is right, 00:80:F0:A9:5F:F8 is in there twice
4716[22:51:15] <BCMM> (good catch)
4717[22:51:19] <hatter_> oh geez,
4718[22:51:23] <hatter_> I see that now
4719[22:51:28] <hatter_> what is going on ?
4720[22:51:32] <tds> two adjacent macs seems sorta suspect as well
4721[22:51:40] <BCMM> maybe they *all* respond to the broadcast address, and it's just a race for which is going to show up in nmap?
4722[22:51:52] <tds> what do you get if you ping it? ;)
4723[22:51:53] *** Joins: legitkrillin (~james@replaced-ip)
4724[22:52:01] <BCMM> tds: eh, if they bought them as a batch from the manufacturer, why not?
4725[22:52:16] <hatter_> I wonder if this could cause a broadcast storm
4726[22:52:25] <BCMM> maybe they come out of the factory sequentially and go in to boxes of five or ten
4727[22:52:31] <BCMM> nobody buys just 1 ip phone
4728[22:52:51] *** Quits: Guest19180 (~prince@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
4729[22:53:08] <hatter_> the duplicate replies to a ping
4730[22:53:24] <hatter_> the broadcast address one doesn't, ping requires -b to ping a broadcast address
4731[22:53:25] <BCMM> if you ping the broadcast address, just that one phone replies?
4732[22:53:46] <hatter_> no, pinging the broadcast address does nothing
4733[22:53:58] <hatter_> WARNING: pinging broadcast address
4734[22:54:08] <BCMM> well, that's one point in favour of it actually being the broadcast address i guess
4735[22:54:26] <greycat> you need ping -b
4736[22:54:41] <hatter_> greycat, yep, did that
4737[22:54:47] *** Quits: mattmoose (~mattmoose@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
4738[22:55:07] <BCMM> most systems won't answer a broadcast ping anyway
4739[22:56:04] <hatter_> what's the best way to discover a broadcast storm on a network ?
4740[22:56:19] <hatter_> ie if somebody plugs a cable back into the same switch
4741[22:56:31] <BCMM> given that that phone also has a normal ip address, i wonder if it's just the only one configured to respond to some type of broadcast traffic
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4748[22:58:34] <hatter_> weird! I will get the phones turned off one at a time and find out which one it is
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4782[23:12:35] <debianenthusiast> Hi People! I'm considering to become a Debian Developer; and the first steps to that is to become a Debian Package Maintainer. What I would like to know is, is there a way to contact or know the Debian Developers living in and around my area?
4783[23:12:35] *** Quits: zerotech2 (~zerotech@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
4784[23:12:51] <debianenthusiast> I've tried the local IRC channels, but there's nobody there.
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4786[23:13:17] <ksk> !mentor
4787[23:13:18] <dpkg> it has been said that mentors is the system the Debian project uses to train new people to become Debian Developers or Debian Maintainers and get their packages into the Debian archive. Ask me about <nmg>. replaced-url
4788[23:13:26] <ksk> debianenthusiast: ^
4789[23:13:36] *** Quits: Achylles (~Achylles@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4790[23:14:10] <debianenthusiast> So would you suggest me to post in the #debian-mentors channel and see if I can find someone near my area to mentor me?
4791[23:14:33] <debianenthusiast> Am I understanding it correctly? (Please do correct me incase I'm wrong)
4792[23:15:11] <ksk> I suppose so, yes. I would think its best if you know already which package you want to help with - like maybe something you are experienced with
4793[23:15:20] <ksk> !nmg
4794[23:15:20] <dpkg> The packaging tutorial (replaced-url
4795[23:16:11] <ksk> debianenthusiast: see the links and triggers, you can do "/query dpkg trigger" to get them in private message
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4797[23:17:43] *** Quits: Theroxat_ (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
4798[23:18:34] <debianenthusiast> Matter of fact, I'm currently reading the Debian New Maintainer's Guide and trying to set up a test environment for myself. I'm not too sure about what packages I would like to maintain - since I'm a complete newbie (regarding Debian Package Maintenance; am otherwise experienced with Linux), I'll try and see what packages are orphaned and proceed
4799[23:18:35] <debianenthusiast> from there.
4800[23:19:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1560
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4803[23:20:47] <debianenthusiast> Okay - another question. The #debian-mentors channel seems to be invite only. Any leads on how I can be a part of the #debian-mentors channel?
4804[23:20:57] *** Quits: Ycarus (~Ycarus@replaced-ip) (Quit: Ycarus)
4805[23:21:09] <debianenthusiast> Could someone please guide me regarding it?
4806[23:22:03] <mtn> did you go to the right server?
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4808[23:23:21] *** ztkida is now known as adikt
4809[23:23:46] <debianenthusiast> @mtn - I think so. Isn't it freenode?
4810[23:23:58] <mtn> #debian-mentors on irc.debian.org (irc.oftc.net).
4811[23:24:15] <debianenthusiast> @mtn - Thank you. Didn't know that.
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4814[23:26:27] <nlpqda> a minute ago my laptop's debian account logged me out all the sudden and closed all opened windows! How to put a finger on what happened exactly?
4815[23:27:01] <mtn> nlpqda: did it shut down?
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4828[23:33:12] <nyov> nlpqda: you can check dmesg / journald, and /var/log/Xorg.*.log
4829[23:33:32] <nyov> but not much chance to find the cause, I think
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4831[23:34:08] <nlpqda> mtn Gnome session terminated and I was logged out
4832[23:34:09] <nyov> happened to me before, never really figured out why
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4834[23:34:27] <nlpqda> nyov: nope I didn't .. I will check it out
4835[23:35:13] <nyov> (I probably got owned by some state level agency :D)
4836[23:35:47] <nlpqda> there is no /var/log/Xorg
4837[23:35:57] <nt80> thought the same
4838[23:36:41] <nyov> nlpqda: are you running wayland?
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4841[23:37:39] <nyov> no idea where the logs would be for that
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4844[23:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1552
4845[23:39:13] <nyov> you could look in /var/log/syslog, around the time it crashed
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4852[23:45:12] <nlpqda> busch:
4853[23:45:17] <nlpqda> buster
4854[23:45:32] <nlpqda> anyway I got to go ... thanks
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4858[23:48:57] <marbar> thanks all! i got my internet working in recovery mode (ifconfig and dhclient) and ran apt update/upgrade/autoremove. now able to boot (post buster upgrade). thanks all!
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