• 0[00:00:10] <zleap> chat later(s)
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• 3[00:01:19] <jhutchins> bernyrd: If it were unrecognized/unsupport it lspci would still see it as an unknown device.
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• 48[00:28:21] <wald0> why the xserver-xorg-video-geode package doesn't exist for amd64 builds?
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• 52[00:30:24] <jhutchins> Possibly not needed?
• 53[00:30:34] <jmcnaught> is the geode cpu 64-bit?
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• 56[00:31:07] * wald0 dont know
• 57[00:32:40] <wald0> launched in 1999
• 58[00:32:51] <wald0> seems like old stuff!
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• 62[00:33:05] * wald0 asumes that amd64 is useless then
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• 65[00:34:12] <dax> it FTBFS on other architectures
• 66[00:34:22] <dax> and yes, i gather the underlying hardware is all i386
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• 153[01:42:56] <aloo_shu> also: what does grub, later debian use to display menu & vt s? For one, I'd like to configure a simple multihead setting (ext. VGA on, int. LVDS off/fallback) early on, and the vt's , display manager, and session to merely inherit this setup rather than re-setting it multiple times in the boot process
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• 157[01:45:07] <aloo_shu> but I also want to understand if instead of forwarding an Xsession to a remote Xserver, I could foward a VT
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• 168[01:59:43] <EdePopede> aloo_shu: you can. you have to tell it on which XServer to run and allow it's displaying on that server.
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• 170[02:01:07] <EdePopede> years ago the NASA had a java program on one of their servers to track sattelites. one of the methods users on Linux/X could use was to grant it access to the desktop.
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• 172[02:02:29] <EdePopede> replaced-url
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• 178[02:04:33] <aloo_shu> EdePopede: ok, but my prob is a different one: I need to keep input where the X clients are, not the where the Xserver is; I had thought that might be easier to implement on the underlying VT (but have only sparse tty understanding)
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• 180[02:05:11] <EdePopede> so input on the machine with the terminal and output on the one with X?
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• 182[02:06:25] <EdePopede> maybe by bending stdin
• 183[02:06:58] <EdePopede> never thought of this model before, that's just a spontaneous guess ;)
• 184[02:07:32] <ryouma> what is the environment variable to temporarily control debconf so that it adopts a high cutoff for questions instead of medium? also, can the color theme be change so it is not grey and black and unreadable red on glaring blue bg?
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• 187[02:09:56] <wonderworld> aloo_shu: what do you want to achieve?
• 188[02:10:35] <wonderworld> mirror live output of a console to another desktop?
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• 195[02:19:32] <aloo_shu> wonderworld: yes, and ultimately, graphical console
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• 197[02:20:53] <aloo_shu> wonderworld: or, in other words, replace a broken laptop display with an android tablet as early as possible, not wasting battery power on the broken display
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• 200[02:23:17] <aloo_shu> EdePopede: would stdin include mouse input on graphical vt's? usually, there's a kbd & mouse combined channel somwhere in /dev/input/eventX
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• 205[02:24:47] <hachedeuxo> Hi everyone
• 206[02:24:52] <bazhang> hi
• 207[02:24:55] <dvs> zzzzzz
• 208[02:24:57] <TurqFlame> Hi
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• 210[02:26:29] <hachedeuxo> I just installed Wine on my Debian Stable but I think Wine-development would be more useful for me.. Do have I to remove the wine stable packages before installing the wine-development ones ? Thank you
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• 227[02:39:22] <metbsd> i'm glad debian is friendly with my old cpu
• 228[02:39:44] <metbsd> Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU T2370 @ 1.73GHz (family: 0x6, model: 0xf, stepping: 0xd
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• 231[02:41:32] <Dat> Are folks still running wheezy boxes or is it not supported anymore? unable to update from repo's?
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• 233[02:42:03] <dvs> Dat, wheezy got moved to archive
• 234[02:42:18] <abrotman> old?
• 235[02:42:37] <Dat> dvs: where can I get the source.list for that?
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• 237[02:44:26] <abrotman> dpkg: tell Dat about archive
• 238[02:44:36] <mutante> wheezy is not just old, it's ancient. even jessie is old :)
• 239[02:44:42] <dvs> !tell Dat about wheezy sources.list
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• 241[02:45:21] <ryouma> just remmeber to go from one version to the next
• 242[02:45:23] <Dat> thx
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• 259[03:03:17] <Dat> W: Failed to fetch replaced-url
• 260[03:03:26] <Dat> Is that error normal?
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• 269[03:10:44] <dvs> Dat, the sources.list is supposed to have only one line in it
• 270[03:11:09] <Dat> hrmm gotcha
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• 274[03:16:03] <rant> hachedeuxo: you could install winetricks or playonlinux they assist in installing multiple different versions of wine into different bottles and do not depend on the packaged wine versions
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• 279[03:19:02] <metbsd> Linux debian 4.9.0-8-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.144-3.1 (2019-02-19) x86_64 GNU/Linux
• 280[03:19:15] <metbsd> am i jessie or jacob
• 281[03:19:29] <rant> metbsd: ask your mother
• 282[03:20:01] <ryouma> debian version 4? o.O
• 283[03:20:09] <metbsd> my mother doesn't know debian
• 284[03:20:18] <rant> metbsd: but she would know your name..
• 285[03:20:28] <ryouma> jessie is 8
• 286[03:20:30] <metbsd> i mean my computer
• 287[03:20:39] <rant> metbsd: if you mean debian version, there is no "jacob"
• 288[03:20:40] <metbsd> so it's jessie
• 289[03:20:53] <ryouma> my uname also shows 4 so never mind
• 290[03:20:55] <metbsd> there will be jacob
• 291[03:20:58] <rant> no, its more than likely stretch but there isnt enough information to go on
• 292[03:21:09] <metbsd> is this latest stable?
• 293[03:21:23] <ryouma> that's the kernel i guess
• 294[03:21:29] <rant> there isnt enough information to tell you what system you are running
• 295[03:21:33] <metbsd> since i installed it i never see any patch released
• 296[03:21:38] <rant> my guess would be stretch
• 297[03:21:44] <ryouma> cat /etc/debian_version
• 298[03:21:45] <metbsd> how can i find out
• 299[03:22:13] <metbsd> 9.8
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• 301[03:22:18] <rant> (cat /etc/debian_version;apt policy;dpkg -l libc6)|nc termbin.com 9999
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• 310[03:30:00] <AdorableGNU> GNU\colossus: Still love that name. It's quite funny and ironic, because the back slashes are used in Microsoft Windows predominantly.
• 311[03:32:30] <hachedeuxo> Thanks rant
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• 460[06:47:36] <mishehu> quick question, as I'm not a full-time debian user and my coworkers aren't around at the moment to give advice: the servers are jessie, I'm working with its tshark (1.12.1), which is rather ancient & doesn't have some functionality I need (json output, for example). I found a newer version but tagged for sid at replaced-url
• 461[06:47:42] <mishehu> errors. If I do the install for-realsies, am I about to break anything?
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• 463[06:48:51] <rant> ,depends tshark
• 464[06:48:53] <judd> Package tshark in stretch/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.28.0), libpcap0.8 (>= 1.5.1), libwireshark11 (>= 2.6.2o), libwiretap8 (>= 2.5.1), libwsutil9 (>= 2.6.5), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), wireshark-common (= 2.6.5-1~deb9u1).
• 465[06:49:14] <rant> ,depends tshark sid
• 466[06:49:15] <judd> Package tshark in sid/amd64 -- depends: libc6 (>= 2.14), libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.28.0), libpcap0.8 (>= 1.5.1), libwireshark11 (>= 2.6.2o), libwiretap8 (>= 2.5.1), libwsutil9 (>= 2.6.5), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4), wireshark-common (= 2.6.8-1).
• 467[06:49:37] <rant> ,v tshark
• 468[06:49:38] <judd> Package: tshark on amd64 -- jessie: 1.12.1+g01b65bf-4+deb8u14; jessie-security: 1.12.1+g01b65bf-4+deb8u18; stretch: 2.6.5-1~deb9u1; stretch-proposed-updates: 2.6.7-1~deb9u1; stretch-security: 2.6.7-1~deb9u1; buster: 2.6.7-1; sid: 2.6.8-1
• 469[06:50:31] <rant> dpkg, ssb?
• 470[06:50:31] <dpkg> First, check for a backport on <debian-backports>. If unavailable: 1) Add a deb-src line for sid (not a deb line!); ask me about <deb-src sid> 2) enable debian-backports (see <bdo>) 3) aptitude update; aptitude install build-essential; aptitude build-dep packagename; apt-get -b source packagename; 4) install the resultant debs. To change compilation options, see <package recompile>; for versions newer than sid see <uupdate>.
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• 479[07:05:24] <jcrain> mishehu: yes, that has a good chance of breaking things. it will most likely fail to install correctly because of missing dependencies.
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• 511[07:42:46] <jcb2016> im trying to install stretch onto a laptop but the installer dosen't detect my wifi card. when im in live usb mode i can install the broadcom .deb and i have wifi but i have no installer. any ideas? can i boot up the installer go to a shell mount a usb that has the broadcom deb file and install from there?
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• 516[07:50:59] <rant> you can just use the firmware installer like a normal person
• 517[07:51:11] <rant> dpkg, firmware installer
• 518[07:51:11] <dpkg> Debian-Installer is able to load additional <firmware>, by including it within installation media or supplying on removable media (e.g. USB stick, floppy). See replaced-url
• 519[07:51:31] <rant> dpkg, firmware images
• 520[07:51:32] <dpkg> Unofficial <netinst> and DVD installer images containing non-free Debian firmware packages are available for installing Debian 9 "Stretch". See replaced-url
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• 524[07:52:30] <jcb2016> thanks rant :D
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• 607[09:25:23] <mishehu> so I've got the source for wireshark 3.0.1 on a jessie server, with the build stuff installed. I only want to build the tshark "subpackage", how do I do that with debuild?
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• 624[09:34:41] <petn-randall> mishehu: Unless you see some special things in debian/rules, you can only get the binary package if you build it all.
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• 627[09:36:16] <petn-randall> mishehu: Also, I doubt that you'll be able to build it, as jessie is is roughly two releases behind the sid version.
• 628[09:36:21] <petn-randall> ,checkbackport --help
• 629[09:36:22] <judd> No package named '--help' was found in sid/amd64.
• 630[09:36:32] <petn-randall> ,checkbackport tshark
• 631[09:36:45] <judd> Backporting package tshark in sid→stretch/amd64: all build-dependencies satisfied using stretch, virtual.
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• 633[09:37:23] <petn-randall> ,checkbackport tshark --torelease jessie
• 634[09:37:29] <judd> Backporting package tshark in sid→jessie/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: libmaxminddb-dev.
• 635[09:37:49] <petn-randall> ,checkbackport libmaxminddb-dev --torelease jessie
• 636[09:37:50] <judd> Backporting package libmaxminddb-dev in sid→jessie/amd64: unsatisfiable build dependencies: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 10).
• 637[09:38:13] <rant> yes well the whole backport thing is irrelevant, this user is set on using something newer than sid
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• 639[09:38:53] <petn-randall> mishehu: You'll have to find some way to patch out that bulid dependency, it's your decision how far down the rabbit hole you want to go.
• 640[09:39:11] <mishehu> maxmind is for geolocation of the ip iirc, no?
• 641[09:39:20] <mishehu> if that's the case, I could really care less about it.
• 642[09:39:34] <petn-randall> You could?
• 643[09:40:06] <mishehu> yes. don't get on my case, english is a retarded language :-)
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• 645[09:40:45] <petn-randall> So you need to remove the build dep from debian/control, and then also patch up debian/rules to somehow not need that library.
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• 650[09:42:57] <mishehu> petn-randall: control has a specific stanza Package: tshark , does that indicate that this might be possible to do?
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• 654[09:49:39] <petn-randall> mishehu: That just defines the binary packages.
• 655[09:49:58] <petn-randall> mishehu: Build the whole thing, or you'll have to start hacking on all files across debian/.
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• 719[10:39:42] <superlinux> hello
• 720[10:39:56] <klys> hi
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• 723[10:40:37] <superlinux> I have kate editor crashing whenever I select to open or save a file. and I don't know why
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• 725[10:40:54] <superlinux> and I don't know how get you logs for it
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• 728[10:42:08] <superlinux> I actually have a problem whenever the open or save dialog boxes show up.. i get a sudden crash
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• 731[10:43:19] <superlinux> also, and after searching the forums and adding the missing libraries as they say, I still have the crash
• 732[10:43:56] <superlinux> my current desktop is GNOME MATE
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• 747[11:00:16] <diman> can anyone help me with disabling login prompt after suspend /hibernate??
• 748[11:00:32] <diman> please
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• 761[11:08:07] <petn-randall> superlinux: If you run kate from the command line, what output do you get? Can you share it with us on replaced-url
• 762[11:08:25] <diman> ;\
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• 764[11:10:07] <superlinux> petn-randall, I will share it
• 765[11:10:16] <superlinux> .. share everything
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• 767[11:10:37] <mishehu> petn-randall: meh if you're curious to know, I manually built it and then rolled my own control/rules/etc files (with the help of the alien script).
• 768[11:11:24] <superlinux> petn-randall, where would you like me to paste it online? is there one for debian?
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• 770[11:12:40] <Sander^home> The value 'jessie-backports' is invalid for APT::Default-Release as such a release is not available in the sources
• 771[11:12:45] <Sander^home> How do I get around this?
• 772[11:12:48] <petn-randall> superlinux: Read my message again.
• 773[11:13:10] <petn-randall> Sander^home: That repo doesn't exist anymore, so you can just remove it from your sources.list.
• 774[11:13:17] <superlinux> ah sorry.
• 775[11:13:20] <Sander^home> Trying to add ssl to raspberry pi raspbian with letsencrypt.
• 776[11:13:27] <superlinux> but i am gonna share
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• 779[11:15:38] <Sander^home> Anyone know how to generate a proper ssl certificate to apache?
• 780[11:16:16] <Sander^home> I did it once with a payed cert. But I think I want to try a free one now.
• 781[11:16:55] <diman> Sander^home, try with LetsEncrypt
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• 783[11:17:07] <superlinux> petn-randall, replaced-url
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• 786[11:17:36] <petn-randall> superlinux: What release are you running?
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• 788[11:18:27] <superlinux> petn-randall, i have things todo @ work. brb.. I have Version 16.08.3
• 789[11:18:49] <petn-randall> superlinux: I mean what OS release.
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• 791[11:18:54] <jelly> Sander^home, for a public, internet facing site, you can use certificates issued by LetsEncrypt which are free
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• 794[11:19:35] <jelly> Sander^home, pick a LE client like dehydrated or certbot, set things up once and let it renew certs automatically
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• 797[11:20:47] <Sander^home> jelly: do you know about a god howto?
• 798[11:21:13] <Sander^home> i feel that letsencrypt debian package is broken
• 799[11:21:22] <Sander^home> from a diffrent mirror.
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• 805[11:22:20] <jelly> Sander^home, that's certbot.
• 806[11:22:31] <jelly> ,i letsencrypt
• 807[11:22:32] <judd> Package letsencrypt (oldlibs, extra) in stretch/amd64: transitional dummy package. Version: 0.28.0-1~deb9u1; Size: 21.4k; Installed: 30k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 808[11:22:40] <superlinux> i am back
• 809[11:22:52] <superlinux> petn-randall, I have debian 9.x
• 810[11:23:00] <superlinux> latest debian 9
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• 812[11:23:21] <petn-randall> superlinux: Did you manually install software over the system?
• 813[11:23:23] <jelly> Sander^home, no, I don't have a howto or a tutorial
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• 815[11:23:37] <superlinux> I used the apt-get
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• 819[11:24:27] <superlinux> I did reinstall the debian 9 but I had a copy of my home directory which I restored
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• 821[11:25:42] <superlinux> and petn-randall look my friend sorry I a troubled you.. I have to leave now. urgent issues.
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• 823[11:26:23] <petn-randall> eh, wtf
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• 844[11:44:31] <diman> can anyone help me with adding a keyboard layboard from terminal
• 845[11:44:36] <diman> in debian
• 846[11:44:42] <diman> cinnamon
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• 848[11:44:59] <diman> keyboard layout
• 849[11:45:16] <n-st> replaced-url
• 850[11:45:29] <n-st> ^ how can i find out why it isn't in buster (and wasn't in jessie)?
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• 853[11:48:05] <jelly> !why is redmine not in testing
• 854[11:48:06] <dpkg> redmine is not in testing for the reasons listed in replaced-url
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• 857[11:49:36] <n-st> jelly: not sure if i'm reading it correctly, but it seems "all okay"
• 858[11:49:51] <n-st> or am i missing something in that output?
• 859[11:50:25] <natinaum> I'm new, what Output?
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• 861[11:50:55] <natinaum> :split
• 862[11:51:04] <n-st> natinaum: i asked why redmine was not in buster, jessie, and testing; jelly sent me replaced-url
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• 864[11:51:21] <jelly> n-st, "freeze" means "no new packages will enter testing automatically"
• 865[11:52:01] <n-st> jelly: so technically the package is fine, but the maintainer didn't get around to, or decided against, including it?
• 866[11:52:07] <jelly> n-st, and if you visit the tracker link, you'll see it got removed from buster in February, so it counts as new now
• 867[11:52:39] <n-st> hmm, i'm confused
• 868[11:52:54] <jelly> n-st, the maintainer would need to ask, I think, the release team, at this point, for an inclusion
• 869[11:54:01] <jelly> replaced-url
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• 873[11:57:38] <n-st> jelly: ah, replaced-url
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• 879[12:01:22] <n-st> how much time is left to still get it into buster? (i assume no packages will be added after buster's release?)
• 880[12:01:34] <n-st> or maybe in buster-backports?
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• 883[12:02:43] <rendar> i need to install a newer package of k3b, because the current one crashes. there is a newer version out there
• 884[12:02:58] <jelly> n-st, the bug you linked kind of implies the maintainers are fully aware of this and plan to ask for inclusion of the 4.x branch
• 885[12:03:02] <rendar> with dpkg -i <package.deb> i get dependencies errors
• 886[12:03:07] <rendar> how to fix this situation
• 887[12:03:08] <rendar> ?
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• 892[12:04:10] <n-st> jelly: what's the release timeline, though? i.e. when is it a lost cause for buster, so i should look for alternative installation options? ;)
• 893[12:04:17] <jelly> !wwbr
• 894[12:04:18] <dpkg> Debian 10 "Buster" started the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release mid-2019. replaced-url
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• 896[12:04:43] <jelly> !wir
• 897[12:04:43] <dpkg> somebody said wir was When It's Ready. See also <rsn> and <siyh>.
• 898[12:04:47] <n-st> rendar: what debian version are you running and what k3b version (and from where) are you trying to install?
• 899[12:05:07] <jelly> n-st, the timeline is, as always, "when it's ready"
• 900[12:05:15] <rendar> n-st: replaced-url
• 901[12:05:35] <jelly> !dmo
• 902[12:05:35] <dpkg> We recommend against using deb-multimedia.org; these unofficial packages are known to cause many hard to debug problems. They are not in Debian either because the they are poor in quality or for legal reasons. See replaced-url
• 903[12:05:55] <rendar> jelly: my current version of k3b crashes
• 904[12:06:02] <rendar> so i need to update it..
• 905[12:06:07] <jelly> ,v k3b
• 906[12:06:08] <judd> Package: k3b on amd64 -- jessie: 2.0.2-8; stretch: 2.0.3a-2+b2; buster: 18.08.1-1; sid: 18.08.1-1; stretch-multimedia: 1:2.0.3a-dmo3; buster-multimedia: 1:18.12.3-dmo1; sid-multimedia: 1:19.04.0-dmo1
• 907[12:06:11] <rendar> i have the reversed situation
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• 913[12:07:12] <xox> hi
• 914[12:07:19] <jelly> rendar, that package is a) built for buster or sid, and b) a dmo package
• 915[12:07:25] <xox> hello all
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• 917[12:07:30] <n-st> rendar: looks like you're on testing… things do break there occasionally, it's somewhat of an occupational hazard…
• 918[12:07:48] <rendar> n-st: nope man, it's not that i'm on testing
• 919[12:07:49] <jelly> rendar, you can't just dpkg -i random crap from internet and expect it to work
• 920[12:07:59] <rendar> n-st: problem is that debian is giving me an OLD version of this software
• 921[12:08:01] <n-st> (or, if you're not on testing, you're trying to install the wrong package version)
• 922[12:08:04] <rendar> the crash has been fixed
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• 924[12:08:11] <rendar> but i cannot access to the newer version!!!!!!!!!
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• 926[12:08:58] <jelly> rendar, use a build for your debian release, and if that crashes, then you either need to build it yourself, or upgrade the whole os if possible
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• 928[12:09:54] <rendar> jelly: do you realize that i have to do some work with k3b, and that your solution is far more time consuming than booting on Windows and burn stuff there?
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• 931[12:10:44] <n-st> rendar: debian generally focuses on stable, well-established package versions, which means you won't always get the newest version. usually it also means that you don't run into bugs as often (since there's a testing phase before new versions make it into debian stable), but seems you got unlucky this time…
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• 936[12:11:13] <jelly> rendar, I don't, but if you have to, then boot windows and do your work
• 937[12:11:20] <rendar> n-st: i know that, you don't have to rewrite your prayer
• 938[12:11:24] <n-st> rendar: you can switch to a more frequently updated, or even rolling-release, distro, but that has it's own problems (new versions being shipped right away, possibly containing bugs)
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• 941[12:11:52] <rendar> containing bugs, or software with BUG FIXED!
• 942[12:11:57] <rendar> that's the dychotomy
• 943[12:12:11] <n-st> rendar: you seemed frustrated, i wanted to offer an explanation rather than just "it is how it is" platitudes
• 944[12:12:18] <jelly> rendar, mixing packages like that leads to package manager breakage
• 945[12:12:19] <rendar> n-st: i am
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• 948[12:12:34] <rendar> n-st: this is the 3948934893894th time this problem happens with Debian
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• 950[12:12:54] <rendar> too old packages that contains some error = i cannot use those to accomplish my work
• 951[12:12:59] <rendar> hence, i cannot use Debian!
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• 955[12:13:37] <rendar> jelly: i know, this is why i'll opt for the 'rebooting on Windows and do the work there', thanks
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• 957[12:13:43] <jelly> rendar, you can set up a chroot with a newer unreleased branch of debian. Or a Windows VM.
• 958[12:14:02] <rendar> jelly: yes, indeed
• 959[12:14:18] <rendar> let's use a VM of another OS, because with mine i cannot do stuff :)
• 960[12:14:21] <n-st> i understand, and it's true that debian isn't the ultimate solution to all use cases. you can try running unstable for faster update turnaround, or try a distro with a different packaging model. really depends on your use case what will work best
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• 962[12:15:00] <rendar> n-st: yeah, but i found it VERY stupid to fix to too old packages..
• 963[12:15:12] <rendar> what about all those bugs that have been fixed?
• 964[12:15:13] <n-st> or if it's just burning, maybe a different program than k3b? (ugly workaround, but maybe the easiest)
• 965[12:15:15] <jelly> rendar, then don't use Debian.
• 966[12:15:35] <rendar> jelly: the fact is that Debian has also a lot of good parts
• 967[12:15:42] <jelly> what about all the bugs that have been added?
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• 970[12:17:04] <n-st> whataboutisms aside, there just can't be an ideal solution for package updates. you'll always either get bugs, or miss features/fixes. that's why we sysadmins will never be out of a job. ;)
• 971[12:17:23] <rendar> jelly: i think that today's software development is quite fast, and if nginx releases a stable release, i think that nginx developers have already fixed old bugs, and the newest added recently
• 972[12:17:40] <rendar> so debian should use that, at least 1 stable before
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• 974[12:17:47] <rendar> but not the 1998 nginx, for Christ sake!
• 975[12:17:53] <rendar> Debian uses TOO old packages
• 976[12:19:12] <Sander^home> Damnit. I had to try the redirect option with the certbot letsencrypt script. but it broke apache configs.
• 977[12:19:36] <n-st> rendar: stable and testing currently have the 1.14 branch, released about a year ago
• 978[12:19:45] <Sander^home> jelly: do you know how to fix that?
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• 980[12:20:14] <petn-randall> !sns
• 981[12:20:14] <dpkg> Shiny New Shit Syndrome is a serious disorder, which usually breaks out into an epidemic every time something new is released. If you have SNS, ask me about <backports> and <ssb>; these are better options than upgrading to <testing> because it is a <moving target>.
• 982[12:20:17] <petn-randall> rendar: ^
• 983[12:20:29] <n-st> rendar: the idea is to keep major versions the same throughout the life of a debian release, so you don't get hit with incompatibilities at random times, only when you consciously decide to do a debian release upgrade
• 984[12:20:30] <petn-randall> rendar: New packages bring new bugs.
• 985[12:20:57] <n-st> see the apache 2.2 → 2.4 and postfix 2.8 → 2.9 for example
• 986[12:21:25] <rendar> ok
• 987[12:21:26] <n-st> both require changes to config files to keep working. on a production system, you want to know exactly when something like that can happen.
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• 989[12:21:47] <rendar> petn-randall: but oldest ones bring also bugs, so?
• 990[12:21:54] <koollman> rendar: that's what debian do, yes. if you want something that uses new packages, you probably want at least some additional mirrors, or maybe a completely different release system :)
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• 992[12:22:15] <n-st> so if compatibility is not guaranteed, no update for you unfortunately. (unless you've got a very enthusiastic maintainer that will backport parts of it)
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• 994[12:22:45] <petn-randall> rendar: Breaking bugs get fixed in the "old" packages. New packages might even break other, unrelated software if those packages are libraries. So Debian stable avoids such breaking changes at all costs.
• 995[12:23:31] <koollman> rendar: oldest ones don't bring new bugs. and consider that each modification in the behavior should be tested against all possible interactions with other packages and existing code and scripts and configurations. which is pretty much impossible
• 996[12:23:38] <n-st> rendar: btw, when you need to compare versions quickly: replaced-url
• 997[12:23:51] <koollman> rendar: which is why stable is not a moving target, but something that changes rarely
• 998[12:23:57] <rendar> koollman: i didn't say the oldest ones bring NEW bugs, but that they bring bugs, as in my case
• 999[12:24:01] <rendar> i have a software that crashes
• 1000[12:24:05] <koollman> rendar: that they do
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• 1002[12:24:06] <rendar> and i cannot update it!
• 1003[12:24:25] <rendar> so i cannot use a newer package WITH LESS BUGS than the one Debian forces me to use
• 1004[12:24:31] <rendar> this is totally nonsense in 2019
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• 1006[12:25:58] <jelly> rendar, I have already explained two possible ways to update it but avoid breaking apt/dpkg.
• 1007[12:26:11] <n-st> rendar: well, you can, but you would be bypassing the testing and release process mentioned above, and losing the benefits it usually has
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• 1009[12:26:16] <jelly> so it's not "I cannot", it's "I don't like these facts"
• 1010[12:26:32] <rendar> jelly: nope it's not that
• 1011[12:26:45] <rendar> jelly: it's that computers aim is to CUT human labor
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• 1013[12:27:00] <n-st> you have a lot of choices, and conflicting goals (new, but without breaking changes)
• 1014[12:27:21] <rendar> with Windows, i can install the package i want, with 0 bugs and 0 crashes and do the work i need to do in 1 min.
• 1015[12:27:25] <jelly> rendar, you've already spent more time here than it would take to debootstrap testing and set up X cookies.
• 1016[12:27:26] <rendar> this is how computers should work
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• 1018[12:27:40] <rendar> jelly: i know, but i feel better, at least
• 1019[12:27:56] <rendar> i'm frustrated so i had the possibility to tell you people, my frustration
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• 1021[12:28:45] <n-st> platitude: "computers help us solve the problems we wouldn't have without them". i know it's frustrating (it's one of my day jobs), but there will always be things breaking, which can't be fixed easily. we can do our best to avoid that (by selecting the best-matching distro for our use case), but we can't completely avoid occasional problems like this.
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• 1023[12:29:19] <koollman> rendar: you don't know that there are less bugs. bugs aren't just inside the code, but in the interaction with everything else
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• 1025[12:29:52] <jelly> as k3b is a KDE app, backporting it would be a ton of work
• 1026[12:29:54] <n-st> so i understand the want to vent about it, which is okay, but eventually you'll need to open a shell and get started on the fix. it will be working again eventually :)
• 1027[12:30:11] <rendar> koollman: there are less bugs
• 1028[12:30:31] <koollman> rendar: that's a statement I know I couldn't make :)
• 1029[12:30:35] <rendar> n-st: i'll us Windows
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• 1031[12:30:39] <rendar> use*
• 1032[12:30:56] <n-st> that's fine, whatever works best :)
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• 1069[13:07:52] <BCMM> rendar: it sounds like you don't like using a stable distro. so... don't then?
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• 1084[13:22:13] <rendar> BCMM: i'm on testing
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• 1188[14:36:18] <banisterfiend> hi all, i'm trying to unnderstand a sysvinit script, it has this line in it: ". /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions" what does that mean exactly?
• 1189[14:36:31] <banisterfiend> note the space between the "." and the /etc/...
• 1190[14:36:36] <luneff> the dot is the same as "source" command
• 1191[14:36:53] <luneff> "run the script in the context of the current script"
• 1192[14:37:07] <luneff> so it can set variables, define functions to be available in your script
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• 1194[14:37:43] <banisterfiend> ah got it, thanks
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• 1196[14:38:15] <banisterfiend> luneff so what is the significance of the "functions" -- just special helper functions to be used by init scripts?
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• 1199[14:39:27] <luneff> you can go read that file ;-) it's like a library, some issues solved system-wide for any kind of scripts
• 1200[14:39:52] <luneff> all the common code than tends to get repeated in scripts
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• 1211[14:45:43] <banisterfiend> luneff thx
• 1212[14:46:12] <luneff> np ;-)
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• 1219[14:49:39] <Mystified> hey guys my install failed at grub install
• 1220[14:50:19] <Mystified> i'm able to boot into the install with super repair disk
• 1221[14:50:41] <Mystified> i've installed to a gpt with btrfs
• 1222[14:51:00] <Mystified> non uefi
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• 1225[14:52:00] <diogenes_> Mystified, with non-efi, you need mbr partitions.
• 1226[14:52:20] <Mystified> do i need to have a separate partition for grub
• 1227[14:52:27] <diogenes_> no
• 1228[14:52:59] <Mystified> i thought I can still use gpt on a non bios
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• 1230[14:53:27] <Mystified> i want to dual boot with trident bsd zfs file system
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• 1235[14:59:40] <baraquiel> Hi, do anyone has some experience with udisks2 and polkit, I can't give the user permission to mount (and decrypt) a LUKS2 internal drive but they can mount an external drive without problem.
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• 1238[15:00:05] <baraquiel> (the drive is not mentionned in fstab)
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• 1520[18:51:00] <JohnA> i am getting message on consol "no irq handler for vector" over and over again, why? what to do about it? google was not my friend!
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• 1535[19:00:48] <EdePopede> JohnA: did you try to append "pci=nomsi,noaer" to the grub boot line (press e while in the boot screen and append it there)
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• 1543[19:04:41] <monra> Hi, how do I setup debian 9 (no de) on a laptop (1600x900) to only use the external monitor(1920x1080)?
• 1544[19:05:01] <monra> Right now I can use both but the external monitor is a continuation to the right of the laptop monitor
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• 1546[19:05:28] <monra> I would like the laptop monitor to turn off when the external monitor is in use
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• 1548[19:06:03] <diogenes_> monra, perhaps with xrandr.
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• 1550[19:06:40] <monra> diogenes_: pretty sure about that, is it ok if I ask for help here?
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• 1552[19:07:17] <JohnA> EdePopede, Yes, doesn't seem to make any difference. I wonder if removed some software when I was try to get rid of xfce, I stripping this sys down as its a server, no gui needed.
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• 1557[19:12:43] <jhutchins_wk> monra: GUI or console?
• 1558[19:13:20] <monra> jhutchins_wk: herm.. what? You mean xrandr? I'm using the cli
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• 1560[19:14:07] <jhutchins_wk> monra: Ok, xrandr isn't going to change the console behavior.
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• 1564[19:15:54] <jhutchins_wk> monra: You're probably using a framebuffer at those resolutions, but while I know you can manipulate the FB display, I don't know any details.
• 1565[19:15:56] <monra> jhutchins_wk: lol fam I don't know what you talking about tbh, what console? Let me reshape my question: How do I use xrandr to turn off LDVS-1 and use my 1920x1080 VGA-1
• 1566[19:16:33] <jhutchins_wk> monra: xrandr only works in Xwindows (GUI).
• 1567[19:16:57] <noodlepie> Hiya guys. I'm still having trouble with Apache2 and its mktemp scripts, -- Unit apache2.service has begun starting up.
• 1568[19:16:59] <noodlepie> Apr 19 18:12:28 Longview-House-Guest-PC apachectl[18264]: mktemp: failed to create directory via template '/var/lock/apache2.XXXXXXXXXX': No such file or direc
• 1569[19:17:00] <monra> monra: Oh that gui ok, yeah i m using a xorg server
• 1570[19:17:04] <jhutchins_wk> monra: console is the physical terminal screen as opposed to an xterm (terminal inside Xwindows).
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• 1573[19:17:21] <noodlepie> It makes a folder in /var/lock called apache2 but its empty
• 1574[19:17:56] <jhutchins_wk> noodlepie: You're not running an x86 are you?
• 1575[19:18:10] <noodlepie> It started when I moved the /var folder to /home/var because of disk space, and that I wanted all the dynamic data on my system to be kept on a specific partition. I have a symlink /var pointing to /var/home and everything (else) works
• 1576[19:18:17] <noodlepie> x86_64
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• 1578[19:18:37] <noodlepie> Antequated 2 CPU AMD jobber effort
• 1579[19:18:55] <jhutchins_wk> noodlepie: Change the lock file in the apache config.
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• 1581[19:19:48] <jhutchins_wk> noodlepie: You'd probably be better off using LVM to manage the partitions and mounting volumes instead of using a symlink.
• 1582[19:19:59] <monra> jhutchins_wk: right now for testing purpose i ran xrandr --output VGA-1 --same-as LVDS-1 and it works as intended, now I'd like to run the output only on vga-1 with correct resolution
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• 1584[19:20:11] <OnceMe> hi
• 1585[19:20:37] <jhutchins_wk> monra: Ok, I guess I don't really understand your configuration, but you seem to be headed in the right direction.
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• 1587[19:21:05] <monra> jhutchins_wk: yeah pretty much, i ll read again the man, thanks for the support
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• 1590[19:22:05] <noodlepie> jhutchins_wk: well, its working for everything else, and the folders permissions are all correct, I check here yesterday and someone pasted a file system listing for me to compare with.
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• 1595[19:24:35] <noodlepie> I haven't tried LVM yet, due to only needing the basic / partition and /home on this PC. I use Gentoo.org on my 8thread i7 laptop with 8Gb RAM, a 1TB HDD and a 256GB SSD. I put the swap and /var and boot data partitions on the SSD for faster access and it works perfectly, which is nice. Debian I favour on slower machines due to the ease and speed of intalling binary packages!
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• 1598[19:25:31] <noodlepie> I've used Debian.org for much longer than I've used Gentoo.org but I am equqlly at home with either, really!
• 1599[19:25:39] <noodlepie> Back when GNOME 2 was new
• 1600[19:25:53] <noodlepie> I like CORBA - I'm really an Object Head with a keen interest in C
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• 1604[19:30:42] <noodlepie> Java, Python, etc. Even ARM and Motorola Assembler - one of these days I'll learn X86_64/Core2 - probably if I can get a new Atari VCS Ryzen box to code demos on! Atari always offered decent "general purpose" hardware like the Falcon computer's M56K DSP and a "normal" CPU - an MC68030. Commodore's amiga, which they offered in competitions with the Falcon only offered 8bit sound output DMA, the Falcon had full
• 1605[19:30:44] <noodlepie> 16bit sound input and output, and the faster generic DSP easily beat the crappy "cheat method" colour display on the amiga, they called it HAM mode, and used the amiga AGA hardware to display high colour images. The Falcon had 16 bit graphics which someone coded a pallette flickering 24bit mode - fun. Simply put, fast generic hardware that does generic functional things, is better than a crappier cpu playform
• 1606[19:30:46] <noodlepie> with "grawphics tricks". The Atari also had an zero-force FPU socket and MIDI ports, which made it quite a buzzy little things. By the time I had saved up for one, the PC platform offered a higher spec, so I left Atari in favour of a PC Linux experience.
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• 1615[19:35:18] <noodlepie> But their new VCS box, which runs Linux (and hopefully will allow me to install Debian.org on it, so I can play Free Games on the Zero-DRM machine - really quite a brave move from Atari.
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• 1617[19:35:56] <noodlepie> To do the same with a playstation or xbox, you would need to pay, like, $10,000 for a development machines with the DRM disabled.
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• 1619[19:37:01] <noodlepie> I have this in /etc/apache2/envvars -- export APACHE_LOCK_DIR=/var/lock/apache2$SUFFIX
• 1620[19:37:16] <noodlepie> if [ "${APACHE_CONFDIR##/etc/apache2-}" != "${APACHE_CONFDIR}" ] ; then
• 1621[19:37:18] <noodlepie> SUFFIX="-${APACHE_CONFDIR##/etc/apache2-}"
• 1622[19:37:27] <noodlepie> ...sets SUFFIX
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• 1625[19:39:19] <amirite> hey guys, i just installed elementary OS and I can't get X to start or even configure it. The first error I see in Xorg.0.log is '(EE) Failed to load module "ati" (module does not exist, 0)'. I can't figure out where the configure lives that is trying to load this module. It's not matched by grepping recursively in /etc/X11 or in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/
• 1626[19:40:11] <noodlepie> Anyways, I might reinstall the whole thing on it, we have 5Mb broadband now, up from 1Mb, which was crap slow sharing the WiFi.
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• 1629[19:40:41] <noodlepie> I've checked with journelctl and systemctl statuses but it seems to be complaining about nothing.
• 1630[19:40:59] <noodlepie> Anyways, thanks and cheers for your help. I'm going for a smoke now. :) Peace folks!
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• 1633[19:42:03] <jmcnaught> amirite: better to ask in #elementary
• 1634[19:44:24] <amirite> elementary is a dead channel... maybe I shouldn't have installed elementary os
• 1635[19:44:44] <amirite> but I really don't want ubuntu because I hate the name "ubuntu"
• 1636[19:45:00] <mutante> how about the OS this channel is named after :)
• 1637[19:45:06] <jmcnaught> we actually only support Debian here
• 1638[19:45:51] <amirite> hmm, maybe I should just install debian -- are there any downsides? why do people favor the debian-based derivatives?
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• 1640[19:47:00] <mutante> amirite: they think it's "easier" and has better hardware detection but imho that was only true quite some years ago
• 1641[19:47:09] <tw> how do I get apt-cacher-ng to stop complaining that jessie-backports doesn't have a release file? Maybe I should find and delete the old version.
• 1642[19:47:12] <temple48> amirite: different people have different reasons & priorities, but commonly it ends up being something where debian consists of stale but consistent & stable software packages, while its derivatives have more recent but potentially less stable & consistent packages
• 1643[19:47:43] <temple48> which may also include more recent kernel releases that would support newer hardware that hasn't been backported to the kernel used by the core debian release
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• 1646[19:48:05] <mutante> amirite: in reality Ubuntu takes everything from Debian and they dont even have their own desktop anymore and you get better support on debian ..imho
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• 1648[19:48:29] <mutante> whether you run stable or testing is a separate question
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• 1650[19:48:54] <jmcnaught> !why debian
• 1651[19:48:54] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
• 1652[19:49:08] <amirite> right, well I do like newer versions -- the idea of stale software is not appealing for a personal desktop workstation
• 1653[19:49:31] <mutante> amirite: stable on servers, testing on desktops.. has always worked fine for me
• 1654[19:49:54] <mutante> amirite: what debian calls "testing" the other distros call "7.0" or something.. ;)
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• 1656[19:50:03] <seaef-tnw> amirite Why? What do you do that needs to be so cutting edge?
• 1657[19:50:23] <seaef-tnw> want vs need
• 1658[19:50:29] <jmcnaught> I use stable on desktops. At a certain point you just want your computer to reliably act the same way each day with no surprises and Debian stable provides that. There's also backports for newer versions of select packages
• 1659[19:50:31] <mutante> cutting edge also means having to deal with more bugs
• 1660[19:50:40] <seaef-tnw> ^^
• 1661[19:50:52] <temple48> yep, if your setup works, it is nice that it will continue to work
• 1662[19:50:56] <tw> seaef-tnw: restic in stable doesn't restore to RO directories. restic in testing handles this correctly. Plenty of stuff like that happens.
• 1663[19:51:13] <jmcnaught> stuff like flatpak and snap makes it easier to safely install newer applications too
• 1664[19:51:38] <dramallama> yes, flatpak is sort of a darkhorse game-changer in that regared
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• 1666[19:52:53] <dramallama> jmcnaught I too prefer stable distro; the problem I've notice from time to time is when my hardware changes; like Nvme drives or, most recently, HiDpi displays
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• 1673[19:55:14] <jmcnaught> Yeah sometimes it's hard to get Stable working on the newest hardware. Kernels from backports can help with that a bit
• 1674[19:56:24] <tw> or rustc/golang, which you need for various things wanting to be continuously up to date (notably firefox)
• 1675[19:56:52] <tw> but workstation is a bit of a different problem than server.
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• 1677[19:58:23] <dramallama> Yes, the nvme drives is remedied with a kernel backport; but the hidpi issue is a DE problem; and still waiting on XFCE to get that fixed (which just this morning I read that we should expect a solution soon) -- but that solution won't be in Buster
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• 1681[20:02:10] <jhutchins_wk> If something addresses significant functionality it usually gets backported.
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• 1777[20:43:20] <pavlos> seems dpkg 1.19.6 has a PAGER so the output of dpkg -l comes one page at a time. Is that default? (was not in 1.18.x)
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• 1787[20:44:44] <rant> ,v dpkg
• 1788[20:44:45] <judd> Package: dpkg on amd64 -- jessie-security: 1.17.26; jessie: 1.17.27; stretch: 1.18.25; buster: 1.19.6; sid: 1.19.6
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• 1802[20:49:33] <jmcnaught> pavlos: the dpkg man page says you can use --no-pager, and that this was added in 1.19.2
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• 1804[20:49:49] <pavlos> jmcnaught: ty
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• 1846[21:04:23] <wabbits> hello #debian, Is btrfs ready for primetime and suitable for use on a desktop system?
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• 1862[21:15:57] <temple48> wabbits: SUSE seems to think so
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• 1871[21:23:58] <somiaj> wabbits: people use it, and it has been around for a while, so is a fairly stable file system. It still isn't default, and unless you have a specific reason for wanting to use it, I always just suggest using ext4.
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• 1913[21:50:24] <ayee> Centos lists their AWS product codes here: replaced-url
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• 1917[21:52:23] <somiaj> what do you mean by product codes, what would these codes do?
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• 1923[21:54:14] <somiaj> ayee: Debian wiki has replaced-url
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• 1925[21:55:21] <ayee> somiaj: the product code lets me guarantee I search for say the latest debian 9 from debian.org. versus getting something else, or using wild cards or regex for filter for the name.
• 1926[21:55:36] <ayee> like debian 9 AWS AMI from debian.org has a specific product code. so when the update it, I can get that.
• 1927[21:55:50] <somiaj> replaced-url
• 1928[21:55:52] <ayee> also the product code is the same across the various regions. and say the AMI IDs change, or the name searches could change.
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• 1930[21:55:57] <somiaj> so why wouldn't amazon list them?
• 1931[21:56:25] <ayee> There is a lot of useful information they don't list on the website. but you can get through the CLI.
• 1932[21:56:33] <ayee> I'm not sure, I think they should list it.
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• 1935[21:57:31] <somiaj> I haven't used AWS for a long time, so unsure on current practices. But maybe this is something that cold be added to the wiki if it is that useful. I'm just surprised it isn't listed on the aws image page if it is that useful.
• 1936[21:58:04] <somiaj> Though unsure the best way to ask someone to add that info to the wiki, but it appears it is not there, and debian just links to the offical images on AWS marketplace.
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• 1938[22:00:53] <ayee> I can launch a Centos 7 AMI, use that AMI ID to find the product code. I can't do the same thing with launching the Debian 9 AMI, getting the AMI id, then searching for it... replaced-url
• 1939[22:01:16] <ayee> How can I find out who owns this page: replaced-url
• 1940[22:01:27] <greycat> Nobody owns it. It's a wiki.
• 1941[22:01:40] <greycat> You can see the history of who has edited it.
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• 1943[22:02:38] <somiaj> The wiki does have a 'for questions about the images please use the e2cdebian google group'
• 1944[22:02:59] <somiaj> maybe you want to send them a question/suggestion to add the product codes to the wiki to give record, make them easier to find.
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• 1946[22:03:33] <somiaj> Though it could be the people who create the images and update the wiki are different. I'm not sure on the prefered way to give a suggestion for the wiki.
• 1947[22:04:02] <greycat> I'm unclear on this concept of "suggestion for the wiki". Are you just too scared to edit it?
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• 1950[22:04:40] <somiaj> I don't have an account because they disabled automatic accounts. You have to email someone to get an account activated, and I haven't gone through it.
• 1951[22:05:06] <ayee> NoahMeyerhans is who I want.
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• 1954[22:06:08] <somiaj> Yea, this is the message you get, "Account creation failed: Automatic account creation disabled to stop spammers signing up. Please contact wiki@debian.org and describe what you want to do in the wiki..", which slows down the creating an account an editing process.
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• 1986[22:20:51] <CyberManifest> I'm trying to install a package and I get the Error: Wrong architecture 'amd64' -- Run dpkg --add-architecture to add it and update afterwards; but I don't seem to understand the proper syntax; I tryed: 'dpkg --add-architecture aarch64 discord-0.0.9.deb' but that doesn't seem to work, I read dpkg --help but I obviously don't understand. Could someone please assist me in figuring this out?
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• 1988[22:21:06] <CyberManifest> oops, I"m sorry wrong room
• 1989[22:22:45] <greycat> aarch64 and amd64 are not the same
• 1990[22:22:54] <greycat> !multiarch
• 1991[22:22:54] <dpkg> Multiarch allows you to install foreign architecture packages. For example, to allow i386 packages to be installed on an amd64 system: «dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update». See replaced-url
• 1992[22:23:14] <greycat> you also don't specify a package name on an add-architecture operation
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• 1997[22:25:58] <tomreyn> cross posted to #ubuntu, also discussed there
• 1998[22:26:56] <tomreyn> actually re-posted there.
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• 2001[22:29:41] <dax> tomreyn: yeah, they said "oops, I"m sorry wrong room" here. i missed it too.
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• 2005[22:31:10] <OnceMe> what does this mean systemd-journald.service has no holdoff time
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• 2010[22:33:16] <somiaj> OnceMe: what command gave you that output? holdoff time appears to the be the time systemd waits before attempting a restart (after it is stopped)
• 2011[22:33:33] <OnceMe> somiaj: there is no command, I just received that
• 2012[22:33:38] <somiaj> so sounds like it just saying this service has no holdoff (configured the RestartSec=, the number of seconds to wait)
• 2013[22:33:40] <OnceMe> I wasnt able to login via ssh (although my server is up)
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• 2015[22:33:53] <somiaj> received that were, in some terminal?
• 2016[22:34:03] <OnceMe> yes
• 2017[22:34:34] <OnceMe> I had to reboot the server in order to login and I lost that message
• 2018[22:34:38] <somiaj> hmm, sounds like stderr/stdout for that service is being redirected strangely. You can look at 'systemclt status systemd-journald' to see all messages related to that.
• 2019[22:34:39] <OnceMe> can I see it again in logs somewhere?
• 2020[22:34:53] <OnceMe> you just answered my question ahead :D
• 2021[22:34:56] <somiaj> though since it is journald that is keeping track of this info, and that is being restarted, unsure there.
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• 2028[22:36:28] <somiaj> replaced-url
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• 2038[22:43:04] <OnceMe> somiaj: is it possible that its a hardware failure/issue?
• 2039[22:44:19] <somiaj> It is possible. journald was restarted (maybe because it or something else crashed) which shouldn't happen.
• 2040[22:45:21] <somiaj> It could also be just a bug, I wouldn't assume hardware unless you have other strange issues affecting various aspects of your machine. But bad memeory can often be the cause of tests, and there are memeory tests you can use to see if yo uhave bad memeory
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• 2042[22:46:07] <OnceMe> somiaj: yap I did testing, cpu/hdd/memory looks fine
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• 2045[22:46:50] <somiaj> could just be something else that caused the problem. I woudln' tworry to much unless you experience other wirdness.
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• 2053[22:49:10] <wabbits> where can I find an old powerpc iso for installation on a powerbook g4?
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• 2056[22:51:32] <somiaj> the 32bit powerpc arch was moved to debian ports (ports.debian.org)
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• 2058[22:51:46] <jakey_> test
• 2059[22:51:53] <jakey_> yay!
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• 2066[22:53:17] <wabbits> found it replaced-url
• 2067[22:55:11] <jmcnaught> wabbits: you should be able to find something more recent here: replaced-url
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• 2091[23:09:40] <tp43_> Looking for docs or help on schroot. I got it installed ok, but blender program wont start, File system mounting, Xlib error and 5 others. So I guess I need to learn about it a bit more.
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• 2093[23:10:17] <tp43_> I'm googling, and only getting basic tutorial on installing and running, which I already got going
• 2094[23:10:37] <tp43_> Maybe too advanced for me.
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• 2100[23:13:25] <jmcnaught> tp43_: did you see the page on the Debian wiki? replaced-url
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• 2105[23:15:22] <OnceMe> somiaj: Im seeing journal corruted or uncleanly shutdown after fsck
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• 2107[23:15:26] <tp43_> jmcnaught, yeah thanks, I am trying to use old stable/jessie to run blender, because kuda isn't working with current stable, there is C++ version error. Hopefully it works with jessie.
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• 2116[23:18:18] <tp43_> jmcnaught, flatpak looks nice, thx
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• 2121[23:19:21] <jmcnaught> tp43_: probably not an option in jessie. In stretch there's a newer flatpak in backports. I use it for a handful of programs, though I'm not sure how it would interface with kuda
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• 2124[23:20:04] <tp43_> jmcnaught, how does it work, how to install and run something is easy?
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• 2133[23:22:16] <jmcnaught> tp43_: yeah it's pretty easy to use, but CLI only at least in stretch
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• 2135[23:22:46] <tp43_> jmcnaught, I can't figure it out. I did $flatpak remotes and it just print the help page
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• 2137[23:23:49] <Zeroffice> On my fresh Debian install I can't connect to freenode with weechat. gnutls says the cert issuer is unknown. I can connect to my own web server which uses a cert from the same CA. Any ideas?
• 2138[23:23:58] <tp43_> how do I see and set the repos, why aren't they preset, or are they
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• 2141[23:24:24] <jmcnaught> tp43_: "flatpak remote-add --user --if-not-exists flathub replaced-url
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• 2143[23:25:04] <jmcnaught> tp43_: also I recommend using the package from stretch-backports ("apt-get -t stretch-backports install flatpak")
• 2144[23:25:09] <OnceMe> somiaj: I did
• 2145[23:25:14] <OnceMe> after 2 weeks I cannot login via ssh
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• 2151[23:30:07] <EdePopede> is there a command to turn off the scrollbar in xterm?
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• 2155[23:31:24] <format_c> EdePopede: +sb This option indicates that a scrollbar should not be displayed.
• 2156[23:31:50] <EdePopede> format_c: yes, for a new one. but on an running instance?
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• 2159[23:33:31] <EdePopede> the implementation of xterm menus is so idiotic...
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• 2163[23:34:21] <EdePopede> is it at least possible to have some command or hotkey to open them or at least a signal which could be sent to xterm?
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• 2168[23:34:58] <format_c> EdePopede: Sorry. Don't know. AFAIK there are 3 different menus available.
• 2169[23:35:21] <EdePopede> there are. only i don't have a mid button available, only that useless wheel
• 2170[23:35:45] <EdePopede> i think it's about time to get my mouse from the 90s back. 3 *real* buttons.
• 2171[23:35:48] <format_c> They're made at a time where graphical user interfaces didn't played a big role
• 2172[23:36:00] <EdePopede> but how did they use them?
• 2173[23:36:08] <tp43_> jmcnaught, nice, works, I am running blender from flatpak
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• 2175[23:36:31] <jmcnaught> tp43_: sweet! Does it work with kuda like you wanted?
• 2176[23:36:33] <tp43_> jmcnaught, but kuda isn't exposed
• 2177[23:36:33] <format_c> Well with a mouse with a scrole wheel has a real 3rd mouse buttong
• 2178[23:36:50] <EdePopede> menus and dialogs should stay open until used. even if it is some Esc to get rid of it
• 2179[23:36:53] <tp43_> jmcnaught, but it is still handy tool for installing apps on a usb stick
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• 2182[23:37:42] <metbsd> when will there be the next release
• 2183[23:37:43] <EdePopede> format_c: a micro button inside the case, right. which would mean i'd have to break it to use it.
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• 2185[23:38:01] <EdePopede> !wwbr
• 2186[23:38:01] <dpkg> Debian 10 "Buster" started the <freeze> process on 2019-01-12 and should release mid-2019. replaced-url
• 2187[23:38:15] *** Joins: MonRa (~MonRa@replaced-ip)
• 2188[23:38:20] <EdePopede> i'd still put my bets on may
• 2189[23:38:40] <metbsd> i'm on stretch
• 2190[23:38:49] <metbsd> i will be able to upgrade to buster
• 2191[23:38:51] <metbsd> ?
• 2192[23:38:54] <EdePopede> as most of the users here i suppose
• 2193[23:39:04] *** Quits: Barlow (~barlow@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2194[23:39:22] <jmcnaught> replaced-url
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• 2196[23:39:39] <jmcnaught> (for historical context)
• 2197[23:39:51] <MonRa> Hi, is running npm to install packages harmful for the os? On the wiki I read about not using external fancy package managers to install by leaving apt unaware, any ideas?
• 2198[23:40:03] <format_c> EdePopede: I mean press the wheel. This is the 3rd mouse button. However I don't think this will help your question. But what's wrong with the scrollbar?
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• 2202[23:40:46] <jmcnaught> MonRa: you just want to make sure that the locally installed stuff does not go anywhere that is reserved for Debian packages. If you install stuff with npm to /usr/local or /opt it should be okay
• 2203[23:41:08] <EdePopede> format_c: press the wheel is exactly the problem. not a very reliable method. this is what made that thing appear, my finger usually slips down from the wheel after some seconds.
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• 2207[23:42:01] <EdePopede> format_c: i even have problems often to keep the menu long enough open to find an entry. at least with that particular mouse.
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• 2210[23:42:25] <format_c> EdePopede: Well xterm isn't the most desirable terminal these days, even though I still like it and use it frequently (with scrollbar and use it)
• 2211[23:42:34] *** Quits: well_laid_lawn (~Jean-luc@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
• 2212[23:42:54] <MonRa> jmcnaught: For example installing angular may interfere with apt?
• 2213[23:43:02] <EdePopede> format_c: i tried a couple of terminals in the past and didn't find one with something missing i need.
• 2214[23:43:32] <EdePopede> scrollbar is rather useless there, the keyboard is more reliable and exact than a mouse could be
• 2215[23:43:54] <format_c> EdePopede: matter of taste
• 2216[23:44:26] <MonRa> Where can I learn about using npm securely without killing apt? I'm pretty paranoic about that on some machines :\
• 2217[23:44:27] <jmcnaught> MonRa: don't run other package managers like npm as root, and make sure that they install to somewhere that won't interfere with Debian packages (/usr/local, /opt, /srv are good options) and remember that apt/dpkg cannot remove stuff that you install that way
• 2218[23:44:40] *** Quits: Barlow (~barlow@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
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• 2220[23:45:13] <MonRa> jmcnaught: Thanks, last thing, how do I make sure about that? I hope the question is not too specific to npm itself
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• 2222[23:45:46] <EdePopede> format_c: i press a key, i release it, i produce one keypress. i keep a modifier key pressed, it stays pressed until i take my finger from it. the keys only know of one axis: up/down. no slipping away (though this keyboard must have been designed by someone who cares more about the look than the functionality)
• 2223[23:45:54] <jmcnaught> MonRa: I'm not that familiar with npm myself, but if you use it as a regular user (not as root) then it won't be able to create files anywhere that would conflict with apt
• 2224[23:46:46] <MonRa> jmcnaught: Oh nice, thanks boss
• 2225[23:46:54] * jmcnaught is not a boss
• 2226[23:47:06] <MonRa> * ahahahahah
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• 2234[23:49:13] <format_c> EdePopede: I just press and hold the middle button when over the scollbar and then the buffer scrolls as I move the mouse up/down, slow enough even row-per-row.
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• 2236[23:50:04] <format_c> But it could also be that I just don't understand the problem.
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• 2239[23:53:13] <EdePopede> format_c: the middle button, right ;) i was finally able to turn it off. have to press it down like i'd want to push it through the desk while holding it between the 1st and 2nd phalanx (would look like this from the side: /ô\ ) so that effectively i don't have a single force vector against the axis of the wheel. and i'm not a master in finger-wrestling, so it's not something i want to do for too long ;)
• 2240[23:53:59] <tp43_> I can't find xchroot in the repo
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• 2243[23:54:34] <format_c> EdePopede: sounds like it's time to purchase a new mouse
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• 2248[23:56:52] <tp43_> This doesn't seem to be in repo: replaced-url
• 2249[23:58:41] <EdePopede> format_c: i'm afraid that's exactly what they want us to do. at least they don't deliver them with a sealed battery. actually the mouse on *this* pc was a replacement for one on which the middle button was getting worse. and the one which causes me problems is not much older than 2 years i think. while i used that one from the 90's i mentioned for more than a decade without any problems. all of them logitech btw.
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• 2251[23:59:26] <jmcnaught> ,wnpp xchroot
• 2252[23:59:27] <judd> Bug replaced-url
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