• 0[00:00:18] <somiaj> but if used properly it is just fine, and by default the biggest issue (if used by both root and your normal user) is that there are now two accounts one can try to break instead of one
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• 7[00:03:54] <xaeB5> can anyone help me ssh into a debian VM. i can ping the host machine's ip but how do i access the guest OS through ssh from another computer?
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• 9[00:04:14] <BCMM> xaeB5: what sort of VM is this?
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• 11[00:04:22] <iuiututa> sudo let me do admin stuff with regular user without long passwords typing but what the man is the utility of hard passwors whatsoever
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• 13[00:04:45] <BCMM> xaeB5: you may have to go through some extra steps to allow incoming connections to reach the guest machine
• 14[00:05:10] <xaeB5> BCMM: virtualbox vm
• 15[00:05:41] <xaeB5> i used networkmanager to give the vm it's own static ip address. not sure if i was supposed to or not
• 16[00:05:54] <BCMM> xaeB5: can you ping the VM's ip address?
• 17[00:06:10] <BCMM> xaeB5: also, do you know which of these modes you are using? replaced-url
• 18[00:07:41] <xaeB5> i can't, no. not the static ip i assigned it. but inside the VM, the internet works fine
• 19[00:07:47] <xaeB5> it appears to be NAT
• 20[00:07:48] <iuiututa> now i m engaged in python scripts... the good stuff is i can read what i execute
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• 22[00:08:13] <xaeB5> BCMM: i found this which i'm following. it may have an answer replaced-url
• 23[00:08:45] <iuiututa> but the pip scares me
• 24[00:08:46] <BCMM> xaeB5: ok, so did you configure port forwarding?
• 25[00:09:04] <BCMM> xaeB5: you linked to the question - i don't know which answer you're following.
• 26[00:09:16] <BCMM> if it's "all of them at once", you're going to run in to some issues.
• 27[00:09:24] <iuiututa> wthell from what source they get the dependencies
• 28[00:09:43] <josspyker> Change the adapter type in VirtualBox to bridged xaeB5
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• 30[00:09:43] <jhutchins> I think I ended up adding two interfaces, one for host-only and one for nat.
• 31[00:09:52] <xaeB5> BCMM: i'm following the port forwarding one. i will let you know if it works in a moment
• 32[00:10:03] <xaeB5> josspyker: oh
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• 35[00:11:41] <iuiututa> i want all installed and best practices of security says always keep only the essential
• 36[00:12:17] <iuiututa> the essential is boring
• 37[00:14:39] <iuiututa> the serotonin is change the scripts to fit best my needs
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• 39[00:14:45] <xaeB5> BCMM josspyker: thanks you guys, worked when i changed NAT to bridged
• 40[00:15:57] <josspyker> xaeB5: yw, now set up keys for ssh login and if it works disable pw login.
• 41[00:17:05] <xaeB5> josspyker: ok i will
• 42[00:17:11] <xaeB5> this one wont be open to internet
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• 44[00:18:09] <iuiututa> i saw in debian installation the option ssh server and laugh
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• 46[00:20:52] <iuiututa> what do you think i must focus? shell scripts or python scripts?
• 47[00:21:40] <xaeB5> iuiututa: why, whats wrong with checking that option in the installer? thats what i usually do
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• 50[00:22:31] <iuiututa> xaeB5 must say is a good option to servers
• 51[00:22:41] *** Joins: eb0t (~eblip@replaced-ip)
• 52[00:22:44] <iuiututa> not desktop
• 53[00:23:31] *** Joins: bliv (~bliv@replaced-ip)
• 54[00:23:59] <iuiututa> and servers admins can do it by hand not in screen installer
• 55[00:24:01] <jneundorf> hi, this is my first foray into irc. got the idea because i ran out of other options. been a user since debian4. upgrading to buster has me scratching my head - samba client no longer sees user/group from samba server. instead sees root user as owner of samba shares. is this a known issue?
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• 57[00:25:21] <magic_ninja> jneundorf, welcome to irc. There is where its at.
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• 60[00:25:54] <jneundorf> magic_ninja thank you for the welcome message.
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• 62[00:26:25] <magic_ninja> jneundorf, I don't an answer though, generally if you idle someone might. That is a strange issue. Is it possible to just change the permissions recursively to fix the directory?
• 63[00:26:57] <iuiututa> a script do
• 64[00:27:38] <jneundorf> it's interesting because the permissions are unchanged on the server. the client now sees different permissions in buster - they were reading correctly in stretch.
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• 70[00:29:19] <iuiututa> python is so more see i got it then shell scripts
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• 73[00:30:51] <iuiututa> but if i give sudo to the noob user to run python... im in trouble
• 74[00:31:07] *** Quits: enseneo (~madneap@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 75[00:31:25] <iuiututa> sudo is for ubuntu desktop users
• 76[00:31:32] <dvs> why whould you need to give sudo to a user to run Python?
• 77[00:32:33] <iuiututa> dvs just to picture a real world situation can be the same man
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• 79[00:33:12] <iuiututa> i prefer run in the box strange things
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• 84[00:34:12] <jneundorf> the client is a vbox vm and the server is the vbox host. vbox client works fine in debian stretch but sambar share is read-only once vbox client is upgraded to buster. vbox is pretty handy - i can easily revert to stretch vbox client
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• 86[00:37:01] <iuiututa> dvs i elsewhere got a cript to change passwords in python it only works with sudo
• 87[00:37:47] <iuiututa> if the SAFE user ir the root... no problem
• 88[00:38:50] <iuiututa> mean the same person
• 89[00:39:27] <iuiututa> sudo is nonsense
• 90[00:39:57] <iuiututa> who is the genius that created sudo
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• 92[00:41:10] <iuiututa> must be in ubuntu amazon supported staff
• 93[00:41:50] <jneundorf> The samba issue was a bit of a surprise in buster - I wonder if it's a bug that should be reported
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• 95[00:43:17] <iuiututa> I report debian is in fault for low spec hardware
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• 98[00:44:34] <iuiututa> mean, if i run a mild vm in low profile hardware the issue is not to be slow is to be in bugs
• 99[00:45:20] <dvs> iuiututa, you can set up sudo to only execute certain commands as root for a user.
• 100[00:46:08] <iuiututa> dvs nice to know
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• 102[00:50:44] <iuiututa> i gave up vms in slow machines. the only one that did something infant system usable was tinycore linux
• 103[00:50:50] *** Quits: Haudegen (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 104[00:52:35] <iuiututa> and i must say tinycore is not for real users
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• 106[00:55:23] <at0m> iuiututa: sudo is great when systems and different parts of it are not managed by a single user. different users can be given different access levels to run specific programs. without the need to give everyone the root password.
• 107[00:56:19] <dvs> really?????
• 108[00:56:29] <at0m> that's what it's for eh
• 109[00:56:40] <iuiututa> at0m ok perhaps i dont know use sudo well
• 110[00:57:03] <at0m> iuiututa: and like many people, probably not in a multi-user config
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• 113[00:58:46] <at0m> it's not just 'to become root'
• 114[00:58:49] <at0m> ,i sudo
• 115[00:58:50] <judd> Package sudo (admin, optional) in buster/amd64: Provide limited super user privileges to specific users. Version: 1.8.27-1; Size: 1215.6k; Installed: 3795k; Homepage: replaced-url
• 116[00:59:12] <at0m> not just super user. more, any other user
• 117[00:59:19] <somiaj> It also keeps logs of what individual admins are doing vs everything done by root, even if you give them full access.
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• 123[01:02:13] <iuiututa> what you think of pip in python?
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• 127[01:02:30] <iuiututa> it download off debian repo
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• 131[01:03:27] <at0m> iuiututa: pip sources 3rd party repo's, not debians. for debian repo's, apt install
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• 134[01:04:22] <iuiututa> at0m this concerns me
• 135[01:04:26] *** Joins: crn (~crn@replaced-ip)
• 136[01:04:29] <at0m> at least when running all from debian repo's you avoid depends hell, cos that's been sorted by debian, and you get reviews and (security) updates
• 137[01:04:50] <at0m> i dare you to update anything you pip installed
• 138[01:04:51] *** Quits: robs_ (~robs@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 139[01:04:54] <somiaj> since python files are mostly scripts, thrid party isn't that bad, but one should really use a python virtual enviorment instead.
• 140[01:04:59] <at0m> light a candle :W
• 141[01:05:01] <at0m> :>
• 142[01:05:10] <josspyker> lol
• 143[01:05:46] <somiaj> Python seems to have way to many tools now to install stuff outside of ones repo. What you need really depends on use case, but debian's python packages cover most of what most people will need.
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• 145[01:06:25] <iuiututa> the dependencies
• 146[01:06:41] <jordanm> pipenv is really nice for development
• 147[01:06:54] <iuiututa> without pip i cant run a script
• 148[01:06:57] <at0m> though many 'user guides' and howto's suggest to pip install, first check debian repo's, probably there's a package that can be apt installed
• 149[01:08:37] <iuiututa> i expect to meee to be trusty not buster
• 150[01:09:25] <shibboleth> you can also do pip install --user
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• 152[01:09:41] <shibboleth> this will pull all the deps into the users .local folder
• 153[01:09:46] <shibboleth> portable, ofc
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• 155[01:10:39] <somiaj> iuiututa: one should often try to install stuff via debian packages and not pip. And if using pip, do this in a virtual enviroment
• 156[01:11:31] <shibboleth> if your web app requires these libs, don't bother with virtualenv
• 157[01:11:45] <iuiututa> shibboleth good to know pip can install only in user pip space i will see this
• 158[01:12:06] *** Quits: fred`` (fred@replaced-ip) (Remote host closed the connection)
• 159[01:12:06] <shibboleth> copy whatever users .local into /var/replaced-url
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• 163[01:13:52] <iuiututa> shibo it supposes i have a web server
• 164[01:13:59] <iuiututa> i guess
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• 166[01:14:14] <shibboleth> no, this was just an example
• 167[01:14:20] <iuiututa> oh
• 168[01:15:08] <iuiututa> kali ente response
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• 173[01:18:04] <iuiututa> but for you i noticed my python script to change passw is useless if passphrase is poor
• 174[01:18:23] <iuiututa> greetings to debian team
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• 178[01:20:17] <josspyker> iuiututa: use keys?
• 179[01:20:28] *** Quits: x0n (~x0n@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
• 180[01:20:29] <somiaj> iuiututa: are you running kali linux?
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• 182[01:20:58] <iuiututa> no kali here, buster
• 183[01:21:38] <iuiututa> was jessie
• 184[01:21:49] <iuiututa> and upgraded
• 185[01:22:14] <iuiututa> did i?
• 186[01:22:33] *** Parts: st0rm (~OS-57298@replaced-ip) ()
• 187[01:22:38] <iuiututa> now you put a moskitoe in my ear
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• 192[01:26:04] <somiaj> just checking, also don't hit enter so much
• 193[01:26:05] <somiaj> !enter
• 194[01:26:06] <dpkg> The enter key is not a substitute for punctuation. Hitting enter unnecessarily makes it difficult to follow what you are saying. Consider using ',', '. ', ';', '...', '---', or ':' instead. If you hit enter too often, you will be autokicked by debhelper for flooding the channel.
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• 197[01:27:23] <iuiututa> Debian 3.16.72-1 (2019-08-13) x86_64 GNU/Linux
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• 204[01:33:10] <iuiututa> sometimes after a day i do liquor i get banned
• 205[01:33:16] <iuiututa> a shame
• 206[01:33:52] *** Quits: xaeB5 (xaeB5@replaced-ip) (Quit: Leaving)
• 207[01:33:55] <iuiututa> on me
• 208[01:34:50] <iuiututa> but afterall i enjoy the interaction
• 209[01:35:06] <somiaj> !off-topic
• 210[01:35:06] <dpkg> #debian is primarily a support channel for Debian users. Please keep the discussions in #debian on-topic and take longer discussions and non-support questions to #debian-offtopic. Imagine the chaos if each of the hundreds of people in the channel felt the need to wander off topic for a few minutes every day.
• 211[01:35:10] <iuiututa> and learning
• 212[01:35:20] <somiaj> iuiututa: There are places to just interact vs adding noise to the support channel
• 213[01:35:49] <iuiututa> am i getting noisy?
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• 217[01:37:47] <iuiututa> i like to learn here
• 218[01:38:45] *** Joins: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip)
• 219[01:39:00] <iuiututa> make friends ... :-(
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• 222[01:42:05] <iuiututa> debian did a hercules job untill today but bugs is part of the coding job
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• 225[01:45:04] <iuiututa> slow is not bug
• 226[01:45:50] <iuiututa> i reported elsewhere
• 227[01:46:06] <iuiututa> forget
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• 232[01:47:56] <iuiututa> is there a script to get my system more tight than is? not a report analises comman
• 233[01:48:52] <iuiututa> it is tight on install
• 234[01:49:08] <iuiututa> with no ssh server
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• 236[01:49:27] <iuiututa> witch is a no comment
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• 241[01:56:10] <iuiututa> i shall give up pip repos
• 242[01:56:50] <iuiututa> cant read millions of codes before run
• 243[01:57:40] <iuiututa> trustfull
• 244[01:59:39] <iuiututa> trust in source, do yo put your hand in fire for what source you dot know?
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• 250[02:07:47] <iuiututa> what about get some pip sources revised inside apt? just noob thkin
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• 253[02:09:02] <iuiututa> would me get peace of mind to get on apt than pip
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• 281[02:26:58] <iuiututa> its windows!
• 282[02:27:33] <iuiututa> run strong in real hardware and cluncky in slow vm
• 283[02:27:46] <iuiututa> lier
• 284[02:27:57] <iuiututa> windows dont run in vm
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• 286[02:29:17] <iuiututa> uncle bill want control
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• 289[02:30:35] <iuiututa> guess what shell script dont need dependencies download
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• 291[02:33:25] <iuiututa> and is just a script forever
• 292[02:33:47] <iuiututa> when python is a language
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• 302[02:37:14] <iuiututa> i can git download tons of python and they will pip
• 303[02:37:34] <iuiututa> and this scare me
• 304[02:38:47] <iuiututa> of course i can find wget in python and will choose wget
• 305[02:39:01] <iuiututa> do y get me
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• 309[02:40:53] <iuiututa> its a mnemonic friendly language
• 310[02:41:28] <iuiututa> with the scary pip
• 311[02:41:49] <iuiututa> dependencies...
• 312[02:43:09] <iuiututa> and is weak for some tasks
• 313[02:43:25] <ZeroDerivative> I'm encountering ssh availability delays (up to 30 min consistantly) during boot on a headless ARM64 cluster (ODroid C2's) running buster with kernel 4.19.69. It appears to be due to not having enough entropy. Has anyone troubleshooted something like this?
• 314[02:43:59] <iuiututa> for crypto simmetric aes dont have the latest even in pip
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• 322[02:48:35] <iuiututa> i have better in gnu
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• 328[02:51:09] <iuiututa> we have to trusty in something i trust in debian
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• 330[02:51:46] <iuiututa> when i apt i am confident
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• 334[02:53:40] <iuiututa> i wich to have a quention cant find in internet
• 335[02:53:58] <iuiututa> irc survived time
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• 348[03:03:41] <iuiututa> there is a python script to pen test in git i shall spend my timelife to fix AND understand
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• 352[03:04:11] <namll> hello, I have a question about FQDN's. I am unsure what i should put for my hosts file. I am following mail server guides for personal project and a lot of example are like so replaced-url
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• 358[03:13:20] <jmcnaught> namll: I run a mail server and my /etc/hosts is the basic default that Debian's netbase package creates. Basically 127.0.0.1 localhost \ 127.0.1.1 FQDN hostname (and some IPv6 stuff below it). Can the server's FQDN be resolved by DNS?
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• 362[03:17:37] <iuiututa> i'll be the firt to buy debian mobile with shell built in
• 363[03:18:13] <ryouma> there is no debian for mobile? O.o (idk anything about what hardware exists)
• 364[03:19:50] <iuiututa> ryouma there is a time for all under the sky
• 365[03:20:32] <namll> jmcnaught: I am getting an error with user does not exist, so i am retracing my steps. I have the same default deb host file, is the mail.domain.com not needed in my host file then? replaced-url
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• 368[03:24:41] <jmcnaught> namll: I do not have a separate line with the public IP address in my /etc/hosts for the mail server domain name. My server's hostname is mail, so the 127.0.1.1 line has 'mail.example.com mail' (in other words the server itself always resolves its on FQDN to 127.0.1.1).
• 369[03:25:10] <jmcnaught> s/on/own/
• 370[03:26:04] <iuiututa> mutt works with a lot more less servers that rely under oauth
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• 372[03:27:09] <jmcnaught> namll: if the server will receive mail, then obviously its FQDN needs to be resolvable by DNS. If the server is sending mail then in addition to the FQDN in DNS you will probably also need reverse DNS for your public IP address to resolve to the mail server's hostname.
• 373[03:27:25] <iuiututa> under command line debian team whould be good work on it
• 374[03:27:44] <jmcnaught> namll: you can sometimes set the reverse DNS in a VPS control panel, otherwise your VPS provider would need to do it for you.
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• 376[03:28:39] <namll> jmcnaught: is that the MX configuration?
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• 380[03:30:26] <namll> to not over complicate my hosts file, i can add mail.domain.com to the line with 127.0.1.1?
• 381[03:31:03] <namll> "127.0.1.1 mail.domain.com debian-s-1vcpu-1gb-nyc1-01.localdomain debian-s-1vcpu-1gb-nyc1-01"
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• 385[03:33:22] <iuiututa> authentication is now not a simple file like mutt
• 386[03:33:53] <iuiututa> .muttrc
• 387[03:34:08] <Lady_Aleena> Are there ANY image viewers out there in nix-verse that will display svgs with external style sheets that aren't browsers? I've tried Gwenview, Ristretto, Mirage, and LibreOffice Draw. Even Inkscape will not render them correctly. So, any ideas?
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• 389[03:35:07] <iuiututa> dont like to rely on script pip alien in my system
• 390[03:35:12] <jmcnaught> namll: do you plan on keeping the debian-s-1vcpu-1gb-nyc1-01.localdomain? If it's not useful to you then I would remove it, and also change /etc/hostname to 'mail' (change /etc/mailname too)
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• 399[03:38:33] <Lady_Aleena> Just now tried gimp, dia, and ImageMagick, no joy there either.
• 400[03:38:56] <Lady_Aleena> What do image viewers/editors have against svgs with external style sheets?
• 401[03:39:09] <namll> jmcnaught: will there be conflict if i have a web server running too? specifiying mail as the hostname
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• 406[03:40:33] <iuiututa> just to coders mutt is a piece of art
• 407[03:40:49] <iuiututa> but oauth ...
• 408[03:40:53] <jmcnaught> namll: you can have multiple FQDN pointing to the same IP address/host. You would not need to add the FQDN for websites to /etc/hosts, but you would configure your web server to respond to requests for the appropriate FQDNs.
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• 410[03:41:20] <iuiututa> 2 step authentication..
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• 413[03:43:21] <jmcnaught> namll: for example with Apache httpd for each website you host you would probably have a config file defining a VirtualHost which would have ServerName and ServerAlias directives.
• 414[03:43:31] <iuiututa> the visual authenticantion kills mutt
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• 416[03:43:42] <namll> jmcnaught: thank you for the help, i am going to get back to trying to get this to work with the new info. I can send email out, but cannot recieve emails. It doesnt find the user that has the email address on the server for some reason.
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• 418[03:44:05] <iuiututa> by mobile can work
• 419[03:44:23] <iuiututa> insert auth code
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• 421[03:44:54] <iuiututa> numeric
• 422[03:45:07] <namll> jmcnaught: ah ok, yeah i use nginx so thats what takes care of all that organizing. so ill change the host file to 127.0.1.1 mail.domain.com mail
• 423[03:45:14] <jmcnaught> namll: which MTA are you using? It might have its own channel. There's also a general ##email channel.
• 424[03:45:33] <namll> jmcnaught: postfix
• 425[03:46:35] <jmcnaught> namll: there's a #postfix channel on freenode.
• 426[03:46:47] <namll> sweet, ill check it out. what do you use?
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• 428[03:46:57] <jmcnaught> Postfix :)
• 429[03:47:00] <namll> :)
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• 431[03:47:15] <namll> have you had issues with people not recieving emails? or it going straight to spam?
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• 437[03:50:52] <jmcnaught> My emails usually get delivered but it's hard to tell sometimes. Google/gmail will accept mails then silently drop them for example. Reverse DNS is required by many mail servers. I also have SPF and DKIM configured, but haven't gotten around to DMARC yet.
• 438[03:51:38] <iuiututa> i am wondering if its there a flaw in something else. its all so good that let me speechless
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• 442[03:52:43] <iuiututa> review mutt
• 443[03:53:15] *** Quits: tyranny12 (~blarg@replaced-ip) (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)
• 444[03:53:50] <iuiututa> to modern mail
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• 447[03:54:37] <jmcnaught> namll: there are also websites that let you check if your server's IP address or domain name is on any blacklists. For the issue you're having with receiving mail I would try #postfix (read the topic for how to get started) and for general deliverability try ##email. I would join those channels too but I'm about to leave, so good luck!
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• 451[03:56:27] <iuiututa> mean modern command line
• 452[03:56:41] <iuiututa> to point
• 453[03:56:52] <naribia> where can I check in logs to see if my machine shutdown due to overheating?
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• 458[04:01:44] <iuiututa> naribia overheating is for gamers
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• 463[04:02:23] <iuiututa> machines
• 464[04:02:35] <patterson> Get a temperature program that logs. Or fan control
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• 469[04:04:47] <patterson> If it's a laptop, put it on a flat surface and prop up the back just a bit to let air in
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• 471[04:05:21] <iuiututa> without a memory check fault correction that is rare for dessktop thing can be messy
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• 474[04:06:50] <patterson> Gaming is typically when heat issues occur as iuiututa said
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• 479[04:10:53] <naribia> it is possible in my situation that the computer overheated, I'm simply wanting to know if there is any way to see evidence of that in the OS
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• 487[04:13:57] <iuiututa> ive changed my desktop long time ago cleaned the wires put more fan , changed cooler to water cooler things solved
• 488[04:14:58] *** Quits: Surfer2011 (~quassel@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 489[04:15:53] <iuiututa> and
• 490[04:16:14] <iuiututa> keek an eye in dust in coolers
• 491[04:16:26] <iuiututa> dust kills
• 492[04:16:42] <patterson> maybe you could add lm_wsensors replaced-url
• 493[04:17:01] <patterson> lm_swensors
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• 495[04:17:42] <patterson> phht -w
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• 497[04:18:37] <patterson> You might open it up and blow dust, lock for blocked stuff. reseat the ram
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• 505[04:19:17] <patterson> look
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• 511[04:24:19] <jmcnaught> naribia: did you check /var/log/syslog?
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• 516[04:26:41] <iuiututa> the dust killed my energy font (source)
• 517[04:27:09] <naribia> jmcnaught: yes. The output above where it turned off doesn't show anything evidence as to why it turned off as far as I can tell
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• 523[04:29:45] <iuiututa> dont push the hardware to max
• 524[04:30:51] <iuiututa> it is built to do the job without tweaks
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• 527[04:31:46] <iuiututa> bios is for confident people
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• 531[04:33:45] <iuiututa> havent seen xeon is "Gz slow"
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• 533[04:34:11] <jmcnaught> naribia: if something were logged it would be in syslog. If the CPU overheated and shut itself down I do not think that would be logged anyways.
• 534[04:34:18] <iuiututa> take care with your giga
• 535[04:34:37] <naribia> jmcnaught: ah, ok
• 536[04:36:19] <iuiututa> forget the log fix the source of the problem that a smart people know what is
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• 538[04:36:43] <jmcnaught> naribia: have you checked out thermald?
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• 540[04:37:24] <naribia> jmcnaught: no, not familiar with that
• 541[04:39:21] <jmcnaught> naribia: I used it with a laptop that was overheating. I don't remember if it was shutting off due to heat or if I was just uncomfortable with the temperatures it was reaching, but it helped once I got it configured.
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• 549[04:41:20] <naribia> alright thanks I'll look into it
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• 551[04:42:14] <iuiututa> ill be rich and buy a brand new gamer
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• 554[04:42:31] <iuiututa> pc
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• 557[04:44:32] <iuiututa> lets to the point mutt for good
• 558[04:44:47] <iuiututa> is what can be done
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• 560[04:45:41] <iuiututa> can be done without money LOL
• 561[04:46:07] <iuiututa> the rest is dust in the wind
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• 589[04:54:31] <iuiututa> what if we have only a shell?
• 590[04:55:03] <iuiututa> mass suicide
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• 605[04:56:43] <iuiututa> people would live in farms
• 606[04:58:50] <iuiututa> whistleblower where is debian for mobile?
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• 626[05:16:14] <crestfallen> hi on debian 10 gnome, if I wanted to do development in chrome for say javascript, are the development/authoring tools in chromium identical?
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• 630[05:18:35] <nvz> crestfallen: I didn't know chrome/chomium had any development/authoring tools, but I don't see why they'd be any different
• 631[05:18:48] <nvz> !chromium
• 632[05:18:48] <dpkg> Chromium is an open source web browser produced by Google, based on WebKit. Google Chrome is based on Chromium. Ask me about <pepper flash>. replaced-url
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• 651[05:21:43] <crestfallen> nvz, thanks, I don't know what you call it, but for a mooc class it's required to use chrome for javascript stuff. the class is for ethereum and a language called solidity
• 652[05:22:08] <crestfallen> ..what you call it, i.e what you call the environment
• 653[05:23:03] <nvz> crestfallen: well you could install chrome regardless but chromium should be the same..
• 654[05:23:39] <crestfallen> thanks yeah it must be. when I googled it a bunch of chrome hits but none for chromium
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• 674[05:26:53] <nvz> crestfallen: yes well, water is wet, the sky is blue, Microsoft(r) isn't going to tell you to buy a Mac Book, and Google isn't going to tell you to use chromium.. heh.. these are the facts of life
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• 676[05:27:23] <nvz> they're a corporation that makes money on data mining, they're going to tell you to use their closed source browser
• 677[05:27:38] <dvs> browserS
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• 713[05:56:54] <magic_ninja> I'm a firefox fanboy. I switched from chrome, not because FF is open source, but because it is a better browser.
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• 715[05:57:23] <magic_ninja> I used firefox when it first came out because it had *gasp* tabs instead of needing a bunch of windows. Switched to chrome because it was a better browser. Now, back to firefox.
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• 718[05:58:31] <crowley95> why does even debian unstable take so long to get updated packages in the repo?
• 719[05:58:52] <crowley95> is there anything we can do individually to help move the process along?
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• 724[06:00:58] <magic_ninja> crowley95, i don't know for certain, but my guess is that they aren't constantly updating packages because of the time between release cycles. For instance, Plasma is still 5.14. They don't want to constantly re-work Plasma into the desktop, so they pick a good LTS release of each package to include.
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• 726[06:01:33] <magic_ninja> Are you wanting all new packages, or just specific new packages?
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• 728[06:02:18] <crowley95> just specific ones, namely coreutils, whose stable 8.31 came out in March but still isn't on Debian repos
• 729[06:02:35] <crowley95> replaced-url
• 730[06:04:22] <magic_ninja> Okay, so I would say not to just arbitrarily install coreutils in that manner :)
• 731[06:04:29] <magic_ninja> Is there a specific feature you need?
• 732[06:05:14] <magic_ninja> And yea, debian is a bit behind, but for the reasons I discussed above. There are other distros that are a bit ahead of it in that regard. By its very nature, debian is slow-moving
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• 738[06:08:01] <Gigglebyte> nvm> You busy?
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• 742[06:10:47] <crowley95> magic_ninja I understand, I thought that just applied to stable, not even the unstable
• 743[06:11:18] <crowley95> magic_ninja well coreutils 8.31 now has a stat command that can read creation dates, which is pretty big milestone
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• 748[06:12:45] <crowley95> i'm compiling 8.31 from source. would it be dangerous to install it?
• 749[06:12:53] <crowley95> magic_ninja: do you think it would be*
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• 751[06:14:32] <magic_ninja> I honestly don't know enough to answer that. What you CAN do is compile core-utils and place a symlink in /opt/ to the new stat command and call it something like statn
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• 755[06:15:00] <magic_ninja> if that works okay, you can just use that until 8.31 comes out.
• 756[06:15:21] <magic_ninja> I think you can actually package it too
• 757[06:15:38] <magic_ninja> That might even be the better way, create a package from the source and then install the package.
• 758[06:15:55] <magic_ninja> but if you hang out here, I'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will chime in.
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• 763[06:18:10] <crowley95> magic_ninja: you're right! that's a great idea actually
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• 768[06:20:54] <crowley95> magic_ninja: worked! and does what i want for now, so i can hold off until the official release. thank you!
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• 770[06:21:24] <magic_ninja> You just do a simlink or a package?
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• 788[06:37:26] <Gigglebyte> Can someone guide me on how to get into my system using livecd? I am following instructions found here replaced-url
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• 790[06:37:49] <Gigglebyte> I am at ashell. The shell says I am at /bin/sh:
• 791[06:38:23] <Gigglebyte> I have mounted one of two efi disks /dev/sda2
• 792[06:38:39] <Gigglebyte> Both /dev/sda1 and /dev/sda2 are efi
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• 794[06:40:19] <Gigglebyte> test
• 795[06:40:33] <Gigglebyte> My swap file is /dev/sda3
• 796[06:40:54] <Gigglebyte> My main file system is /dev/sda4
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• 799[06:42:12] <Gigglebyte> I got an error when I attempted to enter the following step from the Debian website on recovery root@localhost: ~# for name in proc sys dev ; do mount --bind /$name /mnt/$name; done
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• 801[06:42:34] <Gigglebyte> The error I get is permission denied. What am I doing wrong?
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• 805[06:46:10] <diogenes_> Gigglebyte, here is how i did when i had to fix some grub issues: replaced-url
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• 807[06:47:15] <Gigglebyte> diogenes_> I am at a shell. Are these commands ok for doing this in a shell?
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• 810[06:48:13] <diogenes_> Gigglebyte, run: pwd
• 811[06:48:17] <diogenes_> what do you get
• 812[06:48:32] <Gigglebyte> diogenes_> I get an error message indicating sudo not found
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• 816[06:49:09] <Gigglebyte> I have entered pwd,but nothing happened. It returned with no error.
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• 818[06:49:15] <diogenes_> Gigglebyte, you need to boot a live Debian usb.
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• 820[06:49:28] <Gigglebyte> so I am not on a live Debian USB?
• 821[06:49:38] <Gigglebyte> Only an installer?
• 822[06:50:59] <diogenes_> Gigglebyte, most likely not, dowload this: replaced-url
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• 824[06:51:00] <Gigglebyte> diogenes_> I think I am on a live Debian usb
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• 826[06:51:29] <diogenes_> if you were in a live usb then you should boot to desktop then open a terminal.
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• 832[06:53:45] <Gigglebyte> I am in a shell using the recovery tool. Is this the same thing?
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• 834[06:54:15] <Gigglebyte> ok. I must be only an install disk. I will have to make a live cd.
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• 861[07:13:21] <Gigglebyte> diogenes_> I am downloading live cd now from replaced-url
• 862[07:13:40] <Gigglebyte> I installed a bit torrent client before starting the download.
• 863[07:13:58] <Gigglebyte> I think the download is about 40%
• 864[07:15:21] <diogenes_> Gigglebyte, yeah i think you need to have a rest.
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• 866[07:16:21] <Gigglebyte> diogenes_> Will you be on tomorrow? I think the download is about 80% done.
• 867[07:16:34] <Gigglebyte> I am on a pretty fast connection where I am at.
• 868[07:16:56] <Gigglebyte> Am I downloading it from the right site?
• 869[07:17:37] <diogenes_> Gigglebyte, we all gonna be here for you so don't worry.
• 870[07:18:10] <v0idpwn> Can I set SSL without a domain name?
• 871[07:18:23] <Gigglebyte> ok. Thanks. I have some critical data I need to pilfer off the failed distro, and will worry about recovering it after I transfer the data to another laptop.
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• 896[07:39:31] <rozie> hi, I noticed that after upgrading my server from Stretch to Buster all Python virtualenvs were broken
• 897[07:40:26] <rozie> the solution was simple and easy to find: remove and create new virtualenvs, but maybe release notes should have some warning?
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• 904[07:43:37] <warsoul> how can i change my hostname of my box?
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• 906[07:44:26] <rozie> if so, I probably should report a bug. can you give me directions what kind of bug it should be? bugs.debian.org isn't very helpful in the matter of bugs in upgrade procedure or documentation
• 907[07:45:43] <rozie> warsoul: take a look on 'man hostname' output
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• 1005[08:50:02] <DarkTrick_> v0idpwn, afaik possible, but you won't get a certificate
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• 1008[08:50:34] <swivel> RMS resigned from fsf and csail, end of an era
• 1009[08:50:35] <duude__> o/
• 1010[08:51:06] <duude__> Do you guys use any programs for RSS?
• 1011[08:51:35] <]BFG[> it was the end of an era when debian decide with shitD
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• 1013[08:51:39] <]BFG[> became shittian
• 1014[08:51:54] <]BFG[> also the guy killed himself, good that he didnt see this systemD plague lol
• 1015[08:52:00] <]BFG[> he would be ashamed for his own distro
• 1016[08:52:00] <duude__> I used currently use Feedly, but it's pay to use now, are there any free RSS options?
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• 1020[08:53:26] <thomas-e> Hi, so there was a reddit post questioning ufw, does that still work?
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• 1022[08:53:47] <thomas-e> It behaves exactly like it did with debian9
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• 1037[09:04:47] <swivel> duude__: rss2email shows up in the popcount, but I haven't used a reader myself
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• 1041[09:05:17] <swivel> evolution-rss is another, if you use evolution
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• 1055[09:09:23] <swivel> duude__: also canto (replaced-url
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• 1145[09:58:33] <cyphix> Hello. One of my python scripts uses smtplib to send an email. It worked well until I upgraded my system to Debian 10. Now, when running the script, I receive this error: ssl.SSLError: [SSL: DH_KEY_TOO_SMALL] dh key too small. From what I understand, it comes from the new version of openssl (1.1.1). Does anyone know how to fix this?
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• 1149[09:59:56] <colo-work> cyphix, are you connecting to a remote TLS endpoint when this error occurs?
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• 1155[10:00:53] <cyphix> colo-work: the incriminated line of my script is starttls(), so I suppose the answer is yes
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• 1159[10:02:21] <colo-work> cyphix, can you try to connect to that endpoint using `openssl s_client -starttls smtp -connect yourserver:yourport` and see if that works?
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• 1164[10:02:53] <colo-work> (are you in control of the TLS-enabled server?)
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• 1169[10:03:33] <cyphix> colo-work: the python "starttls()" method allows these arguments: starttls(self, keyfile=None, certfile=None, context=None)
• 1170[10:03:37] <cyphix> would that help?
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• 1178[10:06:08] <cyphix> colo-work: now sure to understand your question, but the command openssl s_client -starttls smtp -connect mail.infomaniak.com 587 fails
• 1179[10:06:13] <cyphix> *not sure
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• 1181[10:06:45] <cyphix> s_client: must not provide both -connect option and target parameter
• 1182[10:07:19] <cyphix> forget what I said, I made a typo
• 1183[10:08:00] <cyphix> colo-work: is this considered a success? : replaced-url
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• 1226[10:31:02] <vilpan> hi all, I'm looking for inspiration for a versioning scheme where patches would be maintained on top of an upstream version. This is not related to Debian, but as Debian has solved this problem for many different cases I thought it's a good idea to check their rules before re-inventing something.
• 1227[10:31:03] <vilpan> I've been digging through the developer's reference, new maintainer's guide, policy manual and the interwebs in general, but I can't find any more detailed info on the version structure than replaced-url
• 1228[10:31:03] <vilpan> In particular I'm interested in semantics and usage of version components separated by '~' and '+'. Any pointers?
• 1229[10:31:33] <aypea[1]> is there a way to disable a section of the synaptics touchpad?
• 1230[10:31:45] *** Quits: hawken (~hawken@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
• 1231[10:31:51] <dka> I am trying to install windows 10 on VMware but I have vmware windows setup installing windows status copying windows files (0%)
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• 1249[10:46:02] <towo^work> dka, and that is debian related how?
• 1250[10:47:36] <ratrace> they're ircing from debian, I bet!
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• 1295[11:30:21] <dka> I need to edit a powerpoint document created on Windows 10, VMware workstation 15 is not compatible with Debian 9.7, what are my alternative?
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• 1298[11:33:16] <muAdmDev> dka: I use virtualbox
• 1299[11:34:14] <dka> Does VirtualBox works with Debian 9.7 ?
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• 1301[11:34:41] <dka> I will try to install the debian package virtualbox-6.0_6.0.12-133076_Debian_stretch_amd64.devb
• 1302[11:34:43] <dka> and see
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• 1310[11:40:19] <ratrace> dka: linux native qemu-kvm with virt-manager GUI works just fine too.
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• 1314[11:42:13] <vilpan> dka: what's wrong with LibreOffice?
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• 1335[11:58:39] <EdePopede> the installation process brings the system to its limits
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• 1341[11:59:15] <EdePopede> i'm just trying to keep it away from updating, doesn't seem to be too trivial
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• 1343[11:59:53] <EdePopede> a part of the packages is in "keep back", others still in the upgrade list
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• 1348[12:01:22] <EdePopede> btw, is there a way to get the list of packages which will be updated that doesn't include to start the process and then abort ist?
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• 1352[12:03:46] <azeem> EdePopede: apt list --upgradable
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• 1361[12:09:23] <EdePopede> azeem: nope, is the wrong list. it tells me that my firefox-esr is upgradable, but the firefox packages are in the list of those to keep back. that's exactly the list i do *not* want to see, what i need is the other one. with basefiles and cups and grub and systemd and what not.
• 1362[12:09:44] <dka> vilpan, libreoffice is doing wrong placement of element
• 1363[12:09:56] <dka> I have tried with VirtualBox and "An error has occurred during virtual machine execution! The error details are shown below. You may try to correct the error and resume the virtual machine execution.
• 1364[12:09:56] <dka> Host system reported disk full. VM execution is suspended. You can resume after freeing some space.
• 1365[12:09:56] <dka> Error ID: DrvVD_DISKFULL
• 1366[12:09:56] <dka> Severity: Non-Fatal Error
• 1367[12:09:57] <dka> "
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• 1371[12:10:06] <dka> sorry for multiline
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• 1373[12:10:30] <dka> I have downloaded the ISO using optic fiber from the Windows website, using the US x64 and latest release of Windows 10
• 1374[12:10:51] <dka> English international
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• 1377[12:11:36] <EdePopede> seems that i have to put a lot of packages into the "keep back" list individually and i'd like to keep the number as small as possible.
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• 1387[12:17:22] <dooteo> Hi all,
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• 1393[12:21:54] <EdePopede> this: # apt-mark showhold → libreoffice has put some more LO packages on hold. but not all. is there a metapackage i can use instead or do i have to add them all one by one to the list?
• 1394[12:22:38] <EdePopede> s/showhold/hold/
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• 1401[12:25:22] <EdePopede> and there's another thing: `showhold` only lists libreoffice, i just added it. it doesn't list the other LO packages which are on hold now, and it doesn't list firefox-esr packages and others. so how did those find their way into that list?
• 1402[12:26:05] *** Joins: BCMM (~BCMM@replaced-ip)
• 1403[12:27:34] <dooteo> I'm trying to use 'find' command with an env variable to remove all types of files except those listed in env var. See code at: replaced-url
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• 1405[12:28:13] <dooteo> unfortunatelly, sh expands var content and find does not work as expected
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• 1409[12:29:28] <kreyren> How do you fix this on debian? replaced-url
• 1410[12:29:32] <dooteo> how can I add each of those extensions in a loop to make 'find' run properly?
• 1411[12:29:42] <kreyren> wait, krey go to debian-next
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• 1418[12:33:15] <dunz0r> dooteo: What do you mean by "sh expands var content"? It seems to work for me
• 1419[12:33:26] <dunz0r> dooteo: You haven't changed your IFS by any chance?
• 1420[12:34:25] <dooteo> If I run 'find' command by hand it works well, but when it is located into a script, it list mp4, jpg and png extensions files as well
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• 1422[12:34:46] <dunz0r> Aaah. I only tried it by hand. Hmm
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• 1426[12:36:11] <dooteo> Well, if you copy that code to your terminal/console and run it, it will list mp4, jpg and png files too
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• 1429[12:37:19] <dooteo> but it you: echo "find /mnt/tmp_dir/ -type f ${remove_except}", it wont show those files
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• 1433[12:39:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1576
• 1434[12:39:19] <dunz0r> dooteo: Yeah. I see it. Could be that you can't have multiple -nots?
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• 1436[12:39:43] <dunz0r> dooteo: This is weird, haha
• 1437[12:39:51] <EdePopede> why is the 2nd option ignored here? -> apt-get -s --download-only upgrade ### not that it would change anything, but it seems not to be possible to just get a simple list of packages which would be upgraded
• 1438[12:40:14] <dooteo> you can have several '-not' or '!' in a find command
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• 1440[12:40:25] <dunz0r> Yep. Works when I run it by hand.
• 1441[12:40:41] <themill> dooteo: in what way is this not working?
• 1442[12:40:51] <dooteo> nope
• 1443[12:40:59] <dooteo> not properly
• 1444[12:41:11] <dunz0r> dooteo: Try running it with -x
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• 1447[12:41:27] <dooteo> ok, let's gonna try
• 1448[12:41:28] <dunz0r> That gives you debug output, so you can see what gets set etc
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• 1452[12:42:04] <dunz0r> dooteo: I know why now!
• 1453[12:42:36] <dunz0r> It gets intepreted as '"*<fileextension>"'
• 1454[12:43:36] <dooteo> That's what I call 'expands'
• 1455[12:43:57] <dooteo> how can I avoid it
• 1456[12:45:11] <dunz0r> dooteo: -not -name \*.${item}
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• 1467[12:50:30] <dka> How can I use host resolution within VirtualBox ?
• 1468[12:51:12] <towo^work> read the vbox manual
• 1469[12:51:17] <towo^work> is not that hard to do so
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• 1471[12:51:45] <Haohmaru> reading is easy.. understanding isn't always so easy ;P~
• 1472[12:52:24] <Haohmaru> requires neurons to fire in complex paterns in a mindblowing symphony
• 1473[12:53:19] <dooteo> dunz0r: I need to get a final command line like: find /mnt/tmp_dir/ -type f -not -name '*.mp4' -not -name '*.jpg' -not -name '*.png'
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• 1477[12:54:38] <dooteo> with: -not -name \*.${item} I get next line: find /mnt/tmp_dir/ -type f -not -name '\*.mp4' -not -name '\*.jpg' -not -name '\*.png'
• 1478[12:54:47] <dunz0r> dooteo: Lazy bastard. remove_except="${remove_except} -not -name \*.${item} "
• 1479[12:54:54] <EdePopede> now `apt-get -s -d upgrade` has all of firefox and office in the keep back list. but `dpkg-query -l | grep libreoffice` only has those selected as "hi", most are "ii", so it looks like they would be upgraded. which is simply wrong. is there any *human readable* output of packages kept back and *why*?
• 1480[12:55:36] <dunz0r> dooteo: Don't quote the final variable
• 1481[12:55:45] <dka> I have tried with `VBoxManage controlvm "Windows 10" setvideomodehint 1920 1080 32` as stated and it does not change anything
• 1482[12:56:07] <dunz0r> dooteo: you want find /mnt/whatever -type f ${remove_except}, not "${remove_except}"
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• 1484[12:56:31] <dooteo> ah!
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• 1486[12:56:56] <dunz0r> dooteo: Here's my example that works: replaced-url
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• 1488[12:57:08] <dunz0r> dooteo: Other filetypes though, didn't have anything to test with lol
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• 1493[13:02:25] <dooteo> dunz0r: something is weird... your script does not work, it lists mp4, jpg and png files too once var is set as files="mp4 jpg png"
• 1494[13:03:00] <dunz0r> Wtf. Works for me.
• 1495[13:03:01] <dooteo> see script and results at: replaced-url
• 1496[13:03:37] <aaro> dka: install guest additions in the guest system
• 1497[13:03:39] <dunz0r> Nope. Wtf. I was wrong.
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• 1502[13:05:43] <dka> I have tried using the menu, Device > Guest Addition ...
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• 1505[13:06:00] <dka> but that seems to do nothing, I have tried to download the Guest Addition from VirtualBox and try to run it from the guest system
• 1506[13:06:45] <dunz0r> dooteo: You can disable globbing. Put "set -f" above your for-loop
• 1507[13:07:21] <dunz0r> dooteo: replaced-url
• 1508[13:08:18] <dooteo> Done! and works!!
• 1509[13:08:46] <dooteo> gotta learn about globbing
• 1510[13:08:57] <dooteo> dunz0r: lot of thanks
• 1511[13:09:39] <aaro> dka: when you select guest addition from your virtualbox menu it will show an installation cd which should run automatically and start the installation process in the windows guest
• 1512[13:09:54] <dka> aaro, it does not. It just do nothing
• 1513[13:10:02] <dka> I have just installed manually and try to restart the VM
• 1514[13:10:43] <EdePopede> wtf is wrong with that shitty update process? i put libreoffice on hold so it doesn't get updated anymore, left me back with 45 packages ( replaced-url
• 1515[13:11:15] <EdePopede> do i really have to start apt-get for EVERY package individually?
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• 1517[13:11:37] <aaro> there's no cd in the windows guest? dka, have you installed the package virtualbox-additions in the host system?
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• 1519[13:12:27] <EdePopede> if that's even possible, it's not "install $packagelist" in the end
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• 1522[13:13:15] <dka> Now that I have installed the screen is worst
• 1523[13:13:25] <dka> I cant see anything
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• 1526[13:14:05] <EdePopede> are there repos still using gzip or bzip2 instead of xz? that one us suitable only for high end gaming machines
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• 1529[13:14:45] <jelly> EdePopede: repos or debs?
• 1530[13:14:47] <dka> My guest OS is debian, should I install the Guest Addition into Debian or Into the Windows VM ?
• 1531[13:14:57] <dka> I have installed the Guest addition into the Debian guest os
• 1532[13:15:15] <jelly> dka: guest additions are typically installed within a guest VM
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• 1534[13:15:22] <EdePopede> jelly: debs in the end, but i don't guess that deb.debian.org will give me the choice which compression to use?
• 1535[13:15:22] <dka> I have installed ` VirtualBox 6.0.0_RC1 Guest Additions for Linux` but I have installed `6.0.12 r1 33076)
• 1536[13:15:38] <dka> So the one in the Guest OS are useless?
• 1537[13:16:15] <dka> I don't know how to uninstall the guest addition on linux
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• 1539[13:16:38] <jelly> EdePopede: it won't, the insides of each deb depend on how the deb was built.
• 1540[13:17:00] <aaro> dka: you should install guest-additions from your host os package manager, then when you install it in your guest os
• 1541[13:17:48] <dka> aaro, do you realize that you are conflicting with jelly information?
• 1542[13:17:50] <jelly> EdePopede: however, it's entirely possible a package have been the same version, say, for the last 5 years, and still in the current release, so the binary debs are created with the toolset and options that were common back then
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• 1546[13:17:58] <dka> I have removed the Guest Addition from my Linux operating system
• 1547[13:18:04] <dka> but the screen is still wrong
• 1548[13:18:19] <jelly> dka: they're probably right, I was speaking in general.
• 1549[13:18:20] <EdePopede> i think the problem wasn't there with squeeze(?), or every upgrade would have frozen my system. iirc there were the first packages with .xz already, but only a few, so not a real issue. but now my system goes to its limits during installs, still ok with manually installed packages (and some deps), but upgrade? battlestations!
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• 1552[13:18:53] <EdePopede> jelly: i'd say this machine can't manage package upgrades anymore
• 1553[13:19:13] <dka> The screen is stucked !
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• 1555[13:19:42] <jelly> EdePopede: it's not likely a change in compression would have serious visible issues like that. If anything, CPU usage for bzip2 and xz is comparable
• 1556[13:20:03] <EdePopede> actually i started using xz (it really has a great compression factor) with wheezy, and i think it freezed the system a few times so i returned to bzip2.
• 1557[13:20:11] <dka> How can I remove the guest addition also in the VM ? Should I just remove the VM and reinstall ?
• 1558[13:20:46] <EdePopede> jelly: on a high end cpu maybe. but such things should be tested on weak equipment to have real numbers
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• 1560[13:22:43] <barrett> dka, I believe the install script has an unistall program on linux
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• 1563[13:23:14] <EdePopede> i did the tests. text of course, but also files where i didn't expect anything. even mpeg2, don't remember for mp4. xz >> bzip2, but the system was at its limits during compression.
• 1564[13:23:42] <dka> barrett, I have found it and successfully removed it on linux, the problem is that the VM windows 10 was not usable after I installed guest additions on both guest linux and in the windows vm. After removing the guest addition on linux it kept having a wrong display so I have deleted the Windows VM and I am trying again
• 1565[13:23:43] <epsilon> EdePopede: I'm using pxz, never had freezing issue
• 1566[13:24:21] <aaro> dka: virtualbox-guest-additions is just an image (a cd) that virtualbox provides, but you usually get from your distro package manager in your host system, then with that image/cd you can install it in your guest system
• 1567[13:24:48] <humpled> something seriously wrong there edopede
• 1568[13:25:04] <EdePopede> epsilon: the freezing was probably to a bug (hardware i guess) which probably has some workaround in newer kernels. no more problems since stretch. but the system load with unpacking became a horror
• 1569[13:25:20] <humpled> do you have no swap or something?
• 1570[13:25:25] <barrett> dka, with VBoxManage you can force a specific resolution to a VM
• 1571[13:25:40] <barrett> that should be the solution of your problem
• 1572[13:25:49] <EdePopede> i do, and that's not the problem. can't hear any disk activity. it is definitely a cpu usage thing
• 1573[13:25:59] <dka> barrett, I have tried VBoxManage and also does not achieve what I want
• 1574[13:26:15] <EdePopede> took me half a minute just to switch the desktop
• 1575[13:26:18] <humpled> i have a 350MHz machine which still happily plays music while running upgrades
• 1576[13:26:20] <barrett> dka, then starting from scratch makes sense
• 1577[13:26:22] <dka> It just added the grayed resolution in the list, but couldn't use it
• 1578[13:26:38] <barrett> hard to track what happened
• 1579[13:26:42] <humpled> maybe there's something loose inside
• 1580[13:26:47] <EdePopede> upgrades is worse than fullhd video
• 1581[13:27:43] <EdePopede> sure, there's cpu load with such videos, but nothing to fear anymore (after the syschange i tested it just to be sure)
• 1582[13:28:26] <EdePopede> but they run. even with downloads in the background. and it can't be the network, i have enough bandwith for more than half a dozen video streams
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• 1584[13:28:55] <EdePopede> and it *always* is during the unpacking stage.
• 1585[13:29:43] <EdePopede> i wish i would think only one single time to check htop during an upgrade :|
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• 1587[13:30:31] <EdePopede> could i change the nice value? i really don't care if it takes half an hour.
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• 1593[13:31:39] <jelly> EdePopede: can you run "top" in a second terminal / screen / tmux? How much free RAM is there?
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• 1595[13:33:06] <vilpan> EdePopede: fwiw, the oldest system I still maintain is IO-bound during upgrades. Is your storage healthy?
• 1596[13:33:52] <EdePopede> jelly: ugh, firefox is at 41% again. but i closed it before upgrades after i experienced this behaviour, didn't help much.
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• 1599[13:34:48] <EdePopede> vilpan: had some issues years ago, but everything fine since. stone age disk, all but fast, still does its job
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• 1602[13:36:18] <EdePopede> but i've experienced something. if i do a lot (and i mean A LOT) of copying, it already happened that the copy speed went down. unmounting the whole disk helps, after remount the old speed is back
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• 1604[13:36:36] <EdePopede> not the system disk of course, but if it is something on the board, hm
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• 1609[13:37:53] <EdePopede> i'll try to unpack something, maybe the recent libreoffice packages and then recreate the debs (ar) with bzip2 instead of xz, and then compare
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• 1611[13:38:32] <EdePopede> if it is I/O there shouldn't be real difference, if there is, then it is the compression.
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• 1616[13:42:12] <humpled> my friend gave me a computer which he said i had to have because windows was weirdly broken and linux was needed
• 1617[13:42:31] <humpled> turned out when i opened it that the north bridge cooling fins were just hanging off
• 1618[13:42:58] <humpled> excess load just caused unidentifiable freezes and crashes
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• 1621[13:45:32] <EdePopede> sounds like it should have overheated, so sensors would have reported something of interest?
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• 1623[13:46:38] <humpled> the sensors are on the cpu, disks etc
• 1624[13:47:02] <EdePopede> gpu and acpitz-virtual-0 (whatever this is) at 40°C here, MB at 34, everything else less
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• 1626[13:47:53] <EdePopede> still i had the freezes only on squeeze, went for stretch, then everything was fine. no other changes.
• 1627[13:48:45] <EdePopede> and i had a pentium with the F00F bug, so i don't expect anything :)
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• 1630[13:49:26] <dunz0r> EdePopede: Have you tested your RAM?
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• 1633[13:50:27] <EdePopede> Memtest(+)? not for some time, but last time i did there were no problems. only no idea how much time has passed since.
• 1634[13:50:28] <karlpinc> EdePopede: FYI xz is going to be super slow on a pentium.
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• 1636[13:51:44] <EdePopede> karlpinc: something i was alreading thinking about, maybe i'm missing some cpu flags it wants to use and so it gets horrible performance here
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• 1640[13:53:51] <EdePopede> i remember when the graphic card died which was originally built in. switched to onboard graphics for the moment. really slick became really slow. hardware supporting operations is a nice thing.
• 1641[13:55:17] <dka> Can I use microsoft office without one drive?
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• 1649[13:57:37] <ratrace> dka: dial 0800-MICROSOFT and ask?
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• 1689[14:19:46] <tomk> Hello, i have problem with xfce4-terminal.It simply does not dispaly the output of w,who and users command.Any idea what is wrong?thank
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• 1723[14:45:50] <tsglove> Can somebody post this channel's bot command that posts what a basic apt/sources.list should look like?
• 1724[14:46:04] <tsglove> On a fresh Debian10 machine I have only the two security lines
• 1725[14:46:12] <azeem> !sources.list
• 1726[14:46:12] <dpkg> A suitable /etc/apt/sources.list for "Buster" has the lines: "deb replaced-url
• 1727[14:46:29] * abrotman sees an azeem !
• 1728[14:46:36] <tsglove> azeem, thank you!!
• 1729[14:46:47] <jmcnaught> There's also an example that's easier to copy/paste on replaced-url
• 1730[14:46:54] <abrotman> tsglove: for which version of Debian?
• 1731[14:47:04] <tsglove> Buster... DEbian10
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• 1733[14:47:48] <tsglove> jmcnaught, on my way. Thanks
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• 1735[14:48:03] * azeem sees an abrotman !
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• 1744[14:54:49] <dooteo> Bye! and lot of thanks
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• 1748[14:58:06] <tsglove> jmcnaught, that link is awesome. I'm reading up now trying to (finally!) understand how does "apt" read those lines.
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• 1774[15:17:04] <kreyren> How do you install plugins in VIM on debian?
• 1775[15:17:47] <arinov> guys, i am on fresh 10th, i want to install all the devtools such as git and compilers, i rememeber there was a metapackage for it, which one?
• 1776[15:18:10] <kreyren> found it using `:set packpath`
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• 1778[15:18:36] <tsglove> arinov, apt-cache search ??
• 1779[15:18:37] <Habbie> arinov, build-essential
• 1780[15:18:39] <dvs> arinov, build-essential /
• 1781[15:18:47] <tsglove> or build-essential =)
• 1782[15:18:54] <dvs> you lie!
• 1783[15:20:01] <arinov> oh yeah, essential
• 1784[15:20:04] <arinov> thanks
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• 1786[15:20:41] <Habbie> build-somewhat-relevant-to-your-interests
• 1787[15:21:08] <arinov> i see debian becomes more friendly for laptops
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• 1789[15:21:35] <arinov> tired from performance issues on bleeding, so now i am here
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• 1795[15:27:26] <abrotman> !docs
• 1796[15:27:26] <dpkg> Before asking, please read the documentation. Documentation isn't always easy to read, but that doesn't excuse you from (a) trying and (b) sending patches to improve the docs. If you don't do this, expect to be told to RTFM by impatient volunteers. Dick Brandon said that "Documentation is like sex: When it is good, it is very, very, good. And when it is bad, it is better than nothing." Ask me about <finding docs>, <manuals>.
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• 1798[15:28:16] <greycat> I've yet to see any documentation that resembles sex.
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• 1800[15:29:11] <arinov> abrotman: totem
• 1801[15:29:15] * dvs calls Dr. Ruth
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• 1804[15:31:06] <abrotman> ....
• 1805[15:31:30] <abrotman> arinov: I'm not a documentation bot ...
• 1806[15:31:37] <arinov> oh
• 1807[15:31:40] <arinov> man, sorry
• 1808[15:31:59] <arinov> i should ask dpkg then
• 1809[15:32:12] <greycat> can't hurt. by the way, /msg is preferred for private consultations with the bots.
• 1810[15:32:30] <arinov> i was trying it with abrotman )
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• 1812[15:35:50] <ratrace> well, abrotman is a bot, just not docubot.
• 1813[15:36:02] <arinov> my totem has strange issue with its control bar inactivity, it has no reaction is i press pause button or using its scroll
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• 1815[15:36:32] * ratrace runs.
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• 1823[15:44:05] * Jade_NL <----- Only now realizes dpkg is a bot you can ask questions......
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• 1826[15:45:39] <greycat> dpkg: botsnack
• 1827[15:45:39] <dpkg> greycat: thanks
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• 1854[16:06:41] <phil_azing> Does anyone here deal with the ocsinventory packages?
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• 1860[16:08:31] <horribleprogram> dpkg, apt, apt-*, and dpkg-* commands
• 1861[16:08:31] <dpkg> horribleprogram: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
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• 1863[16:09:07] <horribleprogram> This system is quite complex, and I have no idea where to start to learning the internals of .deb packages, what each of those commands are, and APT, the docs aren't the best either.
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• 1866[16:09:45] <dunz0r> You don't need to learn the inner workings to use them, really. apt <remove|install|search|upgrade> is basically what you need
• 1867[16:09:49] <horribleprogram> don't get me wrong, ik the .deb binaries are ar archives with debian-binary, and control and data tars
• 1868[16:09:50] <greycat> horribleprogram: dpkg is the low-level program that actually extract package files and puts files in place. apt-get, apt and aptitude are layers on top of that, that download things for you.
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• 1870[16:10:17] <horribleprogram> greycat: yeah like I understand apt uses the control file to determine dependencies, conflicts, etc.
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• 1872[16:10:43] <greycat> Most people can get by with just "dpkg -l" to see what's installed, "apt update", "apt install foo", "apt search bar", "apt upgrade" and "apt full-upgrade"
• 1873[16:10:59] <horribleprogram> I'm not most ppl
• 1874[16:11:07] <greycat> Then read the man pages.
• 1875[16:11:20] <horribleprogram> *sigh* fine
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• 1877[16:11:29] <horribleprogram> there isn't any better documents
• 1878[16:11:42] <horribleprogram> by better, I mean, more readable
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• 1882[16:12:10] <horribleprogram> I mean I couldn't even tackle man find
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• 1885[16:12:28] <dunz0r> Finds manual page is pretty good imho
• 1886[16:12:42] <greycat> find(1) has nothing to do with dpkg or apt, though.
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• 1889[16:12:55] <horribleprogram> greycat: ik but my point was that even that was complicated
• 1890[16:13:01] <dunz0r> Find is a tool for finding files that match a certain pattern
• 1891[16:13:09] <dunz0r> horribleprogram: Find is very powerful, that's why it's complex.
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• 1893[16:13:20] <greycat> "I tried to get into English poetry, but I couldn't even make it through Tolstoy"
• 1894[16:13:32] <dunz0r> Then there are programs that are powerful, which aren't very complex, like 'cat'
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• 1896[16:13:39] <dunz0r> Cat's man-page is great
• 1897[16:13:51] <dunz0r> And you should read it, a bunch of options that people forget it has.
• 1898[16:14:03] <dunz0r> Like -v or -n
• 1899[16:14:04] <greycat> most of those are GNU extensions, though
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• 1901[16:14:18] <greycat> POSIX cat only has one option (-u)
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• 1903[16:14:35] <dunz0r> greycat: Which GNU cat ignores :D
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• 1910[16:19:32] <puzzled> msg dpkg guidelines
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• 1918[16:27:22] <BCMM> dunz0r: cat -v is such an infamously misplaced feature that it gives its name to a website that lists over-engineered stuff replaced-url
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• 1947[16:46:13] <han-solo> BCMM: why is `cat -v` considered harmful ?
• 1948[16:46:30] <greycat> apparently feature creep
• 1949[16:46:48] <BCMM> han-solo: cat, in it's original form, embodies the unix philosophy by doing "one thing well"
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• 1952[16:47:32] <BCMM> a tool that identifies nonprinting characters i useful and all, but what does it have to do with cat?
• 1953[16:47:38] <BCMM> ^is
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• 1955[16:48:15] <han-solo> BCMM: ah, i see it :)
• 1956[16:49:21] <han-solo> `sed -n l` is better, i think
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• 1963[16:53:15] <BCMM> see, sed is actually intended to be a very general purpose processor of streams. the feature *belongs* there.
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• 1965[16:53:45] <BCMM> cat isn't really supposed to do anything to data other than read it and then write it
• 1966[16:54:10] <Haohmaru> tell that to *my* cat
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• 1969[16:56:19] <han-solo> BCMM: yep
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• 1981[17:00:51] <nvz> I've been slowly learning awk which if I get better with it replaces the need for cut, tr, sed, grep, etc..
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• 1985[17:01:44] <nvz> after I realized it could remove duplicates without sorting, I knew it was the tool to leran
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• 2014[17:16:50] <bionade24> Has docker out of Debian Repos always rw for /sys?
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• 2016[17:18:31] <Abdullah> testing to stable is okay or a new install is recoomended?
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• 2018[17:19:31] <greycat> Does "out of Debian Repos" mean docker.io in buster, or does it mean upstream? I can't parse "out of" here. It's too ambiguous.
• 2019[17:19:50] <dka> Hi, I want to install a printer on my debian os
• 2020[17:20:06] <dka> it is a xerox phaser 6280. I have downloaded on the website the driver but the file is .rpm
• 2021[17:20:09] <dka> how do i install?\
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• 2026[17:23:52] <Jade_NL> dka: assuming there is no .deb version -> replaced-url
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• 2028[17:25:42] <jelly> dka: look carefully inside the package, if it carries a .ppd file and not much more you can add that over CUPS UI on replaced-url
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• 2034[17:29:12] <jhutchins_wk> Abdullah: If you're running current testing, and want to move to current stable, a new install is recommended. None of the transitional scripts support downgrades.
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• 2050[17:32:35] <Lyberta> hi, I have a hard drive that has 4096 byte physical sectors and 512 byte logical sectors, is it possible to change to 4096 byte logical sectors? I've formatted file system to 4096 byte sectors, do I still get a bit of penalty in this case?
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• 2059[17:37:42] <jelly> Lyberta: 1) no, but ask the vendor if they have a firmware version with 4Kn instead of 512e 2) not anything you're going to notice, comsumer HDDs have been like this for 10+ years now
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• 2061[17:39:04] <jelly> Lyberta: the penalty will apply if you somehow managed to start the partition and filesystem misaligned, which is really hard to do because Linux tools default to 1MiB alignment these days
• 2062[17:39:33] <Lyberta> jelly, yeah, everything is 1MiB aligned
• 2063[17:40:26] <Lyberta> jelly, but the kernel still has to use logical sectors for IO, right?
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• 2065[17:41:04] <jelly> ext2 filesystem has been using a 4KiB block for 25 years now
• 2066[17:41:32] <Lyberta> jelly, I mean when interfacing with HDD
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• 2075[17:43:31] <Abdullah> jhutchins_wk: I have separate /, /home, /tmp, /var and all are ecnrypted. Can I just delete stuff in them and install new root?
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• 2077[17:44:58] <jelly> Lyberta: there are several layers of separation between filesystem block structure vs. how the kernel driver talks with controller, and how the controller talks with disk. The kernel reorders and coalesces writes behind your back, and might even send 1 single sustained thread of writes in much larger chunks, like 256KiB at a time
• 2078[17:45:23] <Lyberta> jelly, ah, ok
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• 2084[17:48:35] <jhutchins_wk> Abdullah: There's no reason you couldn't do that.
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• 2086[17:49:30] <Abdullah> jhutchins_wk: so just wipe /, /var, and etc and reinstall?
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• 2088[17:49:42] <Abdullah> ro still a new install is recommended?
• 2089[17:49:54] <Abdullah> with partitioning again.
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• 2094[17:51:43] <vimar> Hello Everyone
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• 2101[17:55:46] <jelly> Abdullah: if you have luks with lvm on top and filesystems inside separate LVs, you can keep the existing luks and LVM, just reformat the filesystems
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• 2103[17:56:25] <jelly> Abdullah: or you can delete the LVs and size them more appropiately
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• 2106[17:57:03] <jelly> Abdullah: it is useful to have some free space inside the VG for consistent snapshots for backup purposes
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• 2114[18:02:26] <Abdullah> jelly: mkfs.ext4 /dev/mapper/root ?
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• 2124[18:05:06] <Abdullah> jelly: replaced-url
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• 2130[18:07:23] <arinov> how to... see how much time my system drive can survive?
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• 2132[18:07:51] <jelly> Abdullah: yes, except it's /dev/mapper/nix-root there. And you might want to reduce size of that home LV
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• 2134[18:08:26] <jelly> Abdullah: and to make things pretty, maybe rename the VG to something other than nix if you're not going to run that distro any more?
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• 2139[18:09:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1574
• 2140[18:09:02] <jelly> Abdullah: note: do NOT reformat a device while the filesystem is mounted
• 2141[18:09:17] <jelly> boot a livecd or something
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• 2145[18:11:21] <Abdullah> nix was just a name. I run debian on all machines. testingis misbehaving and its my main machine.
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• 2149[18:12:08] <jhutchins_wk> arinov: There's no fixed number, but smartmontools can give you health information.
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• 2151[18:13:28] <joepublic> Predicting the future (i.e., how long will this component survive) is often a matter of guessing and/or psychic divination rather than of linear forecasting.
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• 2154[18:14:01] <arinov> the question is how it feels now
• 2155[18:14:06] <arinov> actually
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• 2160[18:16:00] <joepublic> as root, smartctl -a /dev/sdwhatever | less is likely to answer that, at least in part, as mentioned above.
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• 2186[18:33:07] <arinov> joepublic: i dont have it, which package it is?
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• 2190[18:33:37] <joepublic> smartmontools iirc
• 2191[18:34:00] <arinov> joepublic: i have smartmontools, but i have no smartcrl
• 2192[18:34:19] <arinov> 6.6-1
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• 2194[18:35:03] <joepublic> smartctl (not crl); it will be in /sbin or /usr/sbin for root
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• 2196[18:35:15] <arinov> hmm it seems my root env broken
• 2197[18:35:30] <arinov> even where does not work
• 2198[18:35:36] <greycat> !buster su
• 2199[18:35:36] <dpkg> The <su> command changed in buster: it no longer overrides the PATH variable so commands normally available to root are not found. Put ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes in /etc/login.defs to get an approximation of the old behavior, or just use `su -` instead of plain `su`. See replaced-url
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• 2203[18:36:03] <ihateAdmins> hey jelly i found the problem and fixed it :) as always the problem sits in front of the pc^^ i accidently mixed up the ip adresses and gave that ip to another device that's why the services sometimes didn't respond
• 2204[18:36:06] <arinov> greycat: thanks
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• 2208[18:40:45] <arinov> how good is this? replaced-url
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• 2211[18:41:59] <ihateAdmins> good in what meaning
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• 2213[18:44:37] <jhutchins_wk> arinov: I believe the manpage has a good discussion of what the various items mean.
• 2214[18:44:47] <arinov> ihateAdmins: it passed, but it seems 3Tb gone
• 2215[18:45:08] <arinov> jhutchins_wk: ok
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• 2217[18:45:37] <jhutchins_wk> arinov: This is also worth your time. replaced-url
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• 2219[18:46:21] <arinov> thanks
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• 2301[19:32:29] <tsglove> How can I "trace" what a program does when I launch it? I'm installing GNS3 (network emulator) in a Debian10 machine. Yet when I launch the program from the GUI, it fails silently.
• 2302[19:32:43] <tsglove> What could I run from the command line to "trace" what it is calling?
• 2303[19:32:58] <greycat> first step is just to run it from a terminal, because maybe it's already telling you stuff on stderr
• 2304[19:33:30] <tsglove> Ah yes! It's blowing up with a python module. =) Thank you!
• 2305[19:33:33] <tsglove> On my way to check that out.
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• 2316[19:46:45] <fluofluid> #flood
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• 2329[19:58:48] <letterrip> hi all - is there a way to ignore a hardware WLAN switch?
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• 2331[19:59:19] <nvz> there are lots of ways, you could go read a book.. take a walk, bake a pie..
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• 2336[20:00:38] <joepublic> Being ignorant requires no special gift, I'd say
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• 2339[20:01:25] <nvz> not really..
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• 2341[20:02:39] <nvz> what things like the kernel or rfkill call hardware switches aren't always the same.. some are actual physcal on/off switches, others are soft switches
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• 2344[20:02:58] <nvz> some can be turned back on using the software
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• 2351[20:04:53] <letterrip> nvz - thanks for your help the other day - got the debian system working fine via the chroot install
• 2352[20:04:57] <ilikeyou> hi guys. for the debian-live experienced.. I'm trying to solve screen tearing on Intel in a custom live iso. if I use the normal route of creating a 20-intel.conf, X will not start. any ideas please?
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• 2356[20:05:16] <letterrip> nvz - boots faster than my ubuntu install for some reason - not sure if it is a faster driver or what...
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• 2360[20:06:34] <letterrip> nvz - by 'ignore hardware switch' - i mean can the kernel module 'force' it to on and ignore the output of the switch, or are WLAN hardware switches physically cutting the power to the WLAN
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• 2365[20:08:37] <nvz> that depends entirely on the hardware.. in most cases I'd imagine its more of a suggestion than a hard switching of the power
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• 2375[20:12:34] <letterrip> nvz - that is what i suspect as well
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• 2379[20:14:03] <JyZyXEL> how do you build an i386 version from a debian source? 'apt -b source <package>' only seems to generate amd64 packages
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• 2381[20:14:40] <greycat> if you're trying to compile i386 packages on an amd64 installation, the *easiest* way would probably be to create an i386 installation in a chroot, and build inside that
• 2382[20:14:48] <nvz> letterrip: there is no way something like my laptop has that is a function key can turn it off.. the key is also used for a keyboard scancode.. which means at some point some software is involved and even if it were cutting the power via a relay or something, its doing so in software at some point somewhere
• 2383[20:15:00] <greycat> cross-compiling, in general, is a messy business
• 2384[20:15:09] <nvz> letterrip: in order for it to be a hard cutoff, it has tobe an actual switch that only serves that function
• 2385[20:15:22] <JyZyXEL> so i should've made my debootstrap with --arch=i386
• 2386[20:15:49] <dashs> Upgrade to buster - Problem executing scripts APT::Update::Post-Invoke-Success 'if /usr/bin/test -w /var/cache/app-info -a -e /usr/bin/appstreamcli; then appstreamcli refresh-cache > /dev/null; fi'
• 2387[20:16:25] <greycat> what package is calling /usr/bin/test in a shell script?
• 2388[20:16:27] <arinov> i have feelings that debian gnome works much faster then its ubuntu analog, how can it be?
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• 2390[20:16:53] <arinov> how can i see what video drivers i am using now?
• 2391[20:18:27] <greycat> It's especially bad when they call "appstreamcli" without a path, but put a path on "test" for gods' sake.
• 2392[20:19:47] <dashs> greycat -- thought it was /usr/bin/test
• 2393[20:20:24] <greycat> only if you did usrmerge, and even then it's idiotic to use /usr/bin/test in a shell that has builtin test
• 2394[20:20:58] <greycat> so, report a bug on this package that's assuming a usrmerged path for /usr/bin/test in a fucking SHELL SCRIPT, or at least tell us what package it is so we can see if the bug has already been filed
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• 2396[20:23:18] <dashs> greycat -- console does not identify package, refers to verbose log (is that /var/log/apt/eipp.xz ?
• 2397[20:23:50] <greycat> It doesn't say "configuring foo1.2..." before the error?
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• 2403[20:24:51] <fippolo> hello there !
• 2404[20:25:23] <dashs> greycat -- nope
• 2405[20:25:41] <fippolo> whut?
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• 2409[20:28:11] <nvz> arinov: grep connected /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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• 2412[20:28:56] <dashs> greycat -- thanks -- think I found a clue online
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• 2441[20:43:47] <jhutchins_wk> arinov: You can less Xorg.0.log (in /var/log). It's very noisy, but it will say what driver loaded successfully.
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• 2444[20:44:05] <jhutchins_wk> arinov: There's also a kernel module which you can see with lsmod
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• 2463[20:52:12] <jelly> ihateAdmins, are you your own admin!
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• 2466[20:52:50] <ihateAdmins> jelly what do you mean
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• 2471[20:54:07] <humpled> heheh
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• 2498[21:10:14] <arinov> guys, recorder in gnome was closed when i try to listen the test message
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• 2503[21:10:49] <arinov> are we fixing the things in stable? should i report?
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• 2507[21:13:25] <jelly> ihateAdmins, regarding your issue, its cause and your choice of nickname
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• 2524[21:21:15] <arinov> i am trying to understand how to report, i have installed reportbug, i have a bug (several found), on the step with my version check there're several verstions in unstable, testing, experimental and i need to find if someone found it there
• 2525[21:21:16] *** Joins: photographer (~pc@replaced-ip)
• 2526[21:21:33] <arinov> and what? will it be ported to stable? when my app will fixed?
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• 2528[21:21:39] <arinov> how it works?
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• 2532[21:21:57] <greycat> Most bugs will not be fixed in a stable release. They'll be fixed in unstable, which migrates to testing, which becomes the next release.
• 2533[21:22:28] <greycat> (Or they'll just sit there for years and years.)
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• 2536[21:22:44] <arinov> the other words, it useless to report from stable system?
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• 2538[21:23:53] <arinov> its a simple LHFs and it seems never tested by anyone
• 2539[21:24:14] <arinov> totem has no working bar, recorder quit when you want to listen the test record
• 2540[21:24:54] <jelly> if the app is horribly unusable, it sometimes gets fixed even in stable, but that does not happen very often
• 2541[21:25:25] <rozie> hi, let me repeat a question I asked this morning
• 2542[21:25:27] *** Quits: Yopyop__ (~aa@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
• 2543[21:25:32] <arinov> this is the main application functions, not great, not terrible
• 2544[21:25:38] <bionade24> How can I manipulate .deb files?
• 2545[21:25:38] <rozie> I noticed that after upgrading my server from Stretch to Buster all Python virtualenvs were broken
• 2546[21:25:58] <rozie> the solution was simple and easy to find: remove and create new virtualenvs, but maybe release notes should have some warning?
• 2547[21:26:03] <greycat> bionade24: what do you want to do with it?
• 2548[21:26:09] <rozie> if so, I probably should report a bug. can you give me directions what kind of bug it should be? bugs.debian.org isn't very helpful in the matter of bugs in upgrade procedure or documentation
• 2549[21:26:20] <bionade24> greycat: Delete the postinst script
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• 2552[21:27:01] <greycat> bionade24: the *right* answer would be to get the source, make your modification to it, with appropriate changelog entry and version bump, and rebuild a new .deb.
• 2553[21:27:27] <greycat> bionade24: but you perhaps are looking for the *cheap* answer, which would be to extract the file (dpkg -x), remove, repackage it, and then install.
• 2554[21:29:56] <bionade24> greycat: It's proprietairy so only the last option left. It's for a CI pipeline. How can I repackage it?
• 2555[21:30:14] <greycat> ar and tar
• 2556[21:30:24] <lupine> don't forget yarrrrr
• 2557[21:30:40] <greycat> or find some magical invocation in man dpkg, but it would be *faster* just to use ar and tar manually, in my opinion
• 2558[21:30:48] <lupine> YARRRRRRR
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• 2560[21:33:17] <arinov> greycat: whats the point to have experimental, testing, unstable and that all years of work to make stable buggy system?) it drives me crazy
• 2561[21:34:03] <greycat> If you want to help change that, test the "testing" system before it freezes, and report the bugs you find.
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• 2564[21:35:13] <dvs> arinov, or you can wait to see if there is a backport of that package.
• 2565[21:36:07] <jhutchins_wk> arinov: Have you searched for existing bug reports?
• 2566[21:36:30] <jhutchins_wk> arinov: Somebody who volunteered to test the proposed release missed a bug.
• 2567[21:36:34] <greycat> So little detail has been given so far that we don't even know which package it is, or whether it's a PEBKAC or an actual bug.
• 2568[21:37:02] <greycat> I think it has something to do with GNOME, so I'm not going to be much help.
• 2569[21:37:35] <jhutchins_wk> Could be an audio config error.
• 2570[21:37:36] <arinov> dvs: it may be hardly to understand.... but i want to use stable
• 2571[21:37:46] <greycat> !backports
• 2572[21:37:46] <dpkg> A backport is a package from a newer Debian branch, compiled from source for an older branch to avoid dependency and <ABI> complications. replaced-url
• 2573[21:38:08] <arinov> in 2019 year there... world
• 2574[21:38:09] <dvs> arinov, backported packages are compiled against the stable release
• 2575[21:38:14] <greycat> Which may not even be relevant, as there might not ever be a backport of GNOME. Or whatever package this is.
• 2576[21:38:29] <arinov> no no wait guys
• 2577[21:39:01] <arinov> the point is - what for the stable if i just installed it, open the app, click the only button it has and it does not work
• 2578[21:39:04] <arinov> why?
• 2579[21:39:16] <arinov> the builing packages for building packages?
• 2580[21:39:40] <arinov> or i am the only user of debian stable?)
• 2581[21:39:54] <dvs> arinov, you could be the only one using that package.
• 2582[21:39:56] <bionade24> arinov: Thanks! I found --unpack, then I delete the postinst, then I can trigger rest
• 2583[21:40:00] <arinov> the first man who run it and say hey guys, its a old-testing)
• 2584[21:40:16] <arinov> ok lets fix this
• 2585[21:40:34] <arinov> dvs: default, whats wrong in this word i wrote?
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• 2587[21:41:04] <arinov> dvs: default debian with default gui on default thinkpad laptop the only linux-friendly laptop in the world, the default app
• 2588[21:41:05] <greycat> arinov: nobody can help you until you give enough detail for us to even be able to understand what your error *is*
• 2589[21:41:19] <greycat> WHAT "default app"?
• 2590[21:41:21] <arinov> yeah it was a philosopy kick
• 2591[21:41:25] <arinov> now i want to report
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• 2594[21:42:15] <arinov> so what should i do? the reportbug tell me to check the experimental 3.32.0-1. testings: 3.28.2-2 nd unstable 3.28.2-2
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• 2596[21:42:19] <arinov> how? where?
• 2597[21:42:34] <greycat> We have a version number? Oh, maybe we can guess WHAT THE HELL PACKAGE IT IS by the version numbers...
• 2598[21:42:49] <arinov> greycat: totem does not have working pause button, sound recorder quits when you trying to listen record you just made
• 2599[21:42:59] <dvs> bingo!
• 2600[21:43:03] <arinov> for now i am working at reportbug and sound recorder
• 2601[21:43:12] <arinov> dvs: it was from beginning
• 2602[21:43:20] <arinov> i just rewrite it again
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• 2604[21:43:48] <greycat> ,v totem
• 2605[21:43:49] <judd> Package: totem on amd64 -- jessie: 3.14.0-2; stretch: 3.22.1-1; buster: 3.30.0-4; bullseye: 3.32.0-2; sid: 3.34.0-1
• 2606[21:44:03] <arinov> ,v gnome-sound-recorder
• 2607[21:44:04] <greycat> these don't match the version numbers you talked about from reportbug
• 2608[21:44:05] <judd> Package: gnome-sound-recorder on amd64 -- jessie: 3.14.0.1-1; stretch: 3.21.92-2; buster: 3.28.2-1; bullseye: 3.28.2-2; sid: 3.28.2-2; experimental: 3.32.0-1
• 2609[21:44:07] <greycat> ah.
• 2610[21:44:24] <arinov> that one first, it was random and i have a steps in reportbug already
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• 2613[21:44:57] <arinov> so i am going to replaced-url
• 2614[21:44:59] <dvs> the buster version is only 3.30.0-4
• 2615[21:45:13] <greycat> There are only 3 bugs on replaced-url
• 2616[21:45:32] <arinov> dvs: thanks, cap
• 2617[21:45:42] <greycat> is #932389 your bug?
• 2618[21:45:43] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 2619[21:46:11] <arinov> they all seems the same
• 2620[21:46:19] <arinov> yes
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• 2622[21:46:27] <arinov> 89 is quite close to my problem
• 2623[21:46:34] <arinov> and how the process will be next?
• 2624[21:47:13] <greycat> #932076 says it might even be fixed in a point release
• 2625[21:47:14] <judd> Bug replaced-url
• 2626[21:47:20] <arinov> it was fixed by new version
• 2627[21:48:12] <arinov> ok how can i make it in stable? so if i will fix this in my laptop, the next time i will install debian somewhere else, it must be fixed the same way everywhere
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• 2630[21:48:48] <arinov> the reportbug closed now and it seems i should want for the update
• 2631[21:48:51] <arinov> right?
• 2632[21:49:01] *** debhelper sets mode: +l 1583
• 2633[21:49:34] <greycat> Filing a new bug would not be helpful, in my opinion. You can either wait for Debian 10.2 and see if the fix for 932076 is in there as the bug report says might happen, or you can try to backport it yourself.
• 2634[21:50:12] <arinov> greycat: yes, i choose N and it will not be reported
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• 2636[21:50:46] <arinov> greycat: now its clear, 10.2 is the solution for me, thanks
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• 2638[21:54:47] <arinov> greycat: it seems all gnome applications has something
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• 2640[21:55:05] <arinov> in maps scrolling does not work
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• 2653[22:03:48] * arinov debian gnome chaos monkey 85 lvl
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• 2657[22:07:11] <annadane> also if you have buster-updates in your sources.list you may get it before 10.2
• 2658[22:07:26] <annadane> !proposed-updates
• 2659[22:07:26] <dpkg> stable-proposed-updates is a repository containing packages being prepared for the next <point release>. While they have already been, your additional testing is most welcome prior to wider release. replaced-url
• 2660[22:07:31] *** Joins: soee (~soee@replaced-ip)
• 2661[22:07:48] <dvs> annadane, no, it must be "default"
• 2662[22:07:56] *** Quits: flo2marsnet (~flo2marsn@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
• 2663[22:08:03] <annadane> sorry?
• 2664[22:08:05] *** Quits: BrianG61UK (~BrianG61U@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
• 2665[22:08:11] <arinov> annadane: he is angry
• 2666[22:08:16] <arinov> dont listen
• 2667[22:09:33] <dvs> heh
• 2668[22:09:41] <arinov> annadane: that is very good feature in this reality
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• 2671[22:09:51] <annadane> arinov, please stop being an idiot
• 2672[22:10:02] <annadane> and stop pinging me if you have nothing to say
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• 2676[22:10:10] <dvs> annadane, it needs to be part of the buster release proper..
• 2677[22:10:29] <annadane> which gnome-sound-recorder isn't?
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• 2679[22:10:59] <annadane> i mean it's in buster, unless you mean something else?
• 2680[22:11:03] <denisbr> Hi, Today I use the Mageia Linux and I´m finding other distro for know Why debian is best for fedora?
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• 2682[22:11:12] <greycat> annadane: apparently the bug has already been reported and fixed, is in testing, and may also be backported in 10.2 according to one of the bug reports
• 2683[22:11:35] <annadane> dvs, oh, you mean it must be a package in the base install?
• 2684[22:11:53] <dvs> annadane, yes, backports isn't good enough
• 2685[22:11:53] <annadane> !why debian
• 2686[22:11:54] <dpkg> Debian strives to maintain your freedom whilst also paying close attention to the technical aspects of making a great OS. Debian is stable, upgradable and well tested. See also replaced-url
• 2687[22:11:59] <annadane> denisbr, ^
• 2688[22:12:30] <denisbr> annadane: Thanks!
• 2689[22:12:30] <annadane> dvs, but we're not talking about backports?
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• 2692[22:12:44] <arinov> annadane: very rude
• 2693[22:13:22] <dvs> annadane, the version in 10.1 does not work according to him.
• 2694[22:14:35] <arinov> that situation when a man found the everyday software does not work properly - its an idiot
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• 2700[22:16:31] <annadane> i agree it would be nice if all the software in stable actually worked
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• 2703[22:16:47] <annadane> but 90% of it does... it's just hard to curate everything
• 2704[22:16:51] *** Quits: llucenic (~Thunderbi@replaced-ip) (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
• 2705[22:17:02] <arinov> why do you do this then?
• 2706[22:17:04] *** Quits: monkey-b (~monkey-b@replaced-ip##) (Quit: The Lounge - ##replaced-url
• 2707[22:17:16] <annadane> i don't understand the question
• 2708[22:17:44] <greycat> arinov: most of the people here are fellow users, not Debian developers
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• 2710[22:18:06] <arinov> i understand
• 2711[22:18:33] <annadane> luckily there are other music players one can use in the meantime
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• 2713[22:19:26] <arinov> i know
• 2714[22:19:28] <arinov> thank you
• 2715[22:20:47] <arinov> it seems i am too old to talk about this with people who is not interesting in this talks
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• 2717[22:20:52] <arinov> it will no effect
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• 2721[22:21:18] <arinov> if the people 2 years are making something, and the user removes half to replace it with something else
• 2722[22:21:46] <arinov> user experience
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• 2724[22:22:37] <arinov> experimental -> testing -> undtable -> stable -> obsolete
• 2725[22:23:26] <annadane> (optional) experimental > (maybe) unstable > testing > stable > oldstable > obsolete
• 2726[22:23:32] <arinov> it seems most of users are in testing
• 2727[22:24:03] <annadane> well, this is why it's good to have people filing bug reports
• 2728[22:24:14] <annadane> and to have the minimum friction in contributing to debian
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• 2730[22:24:35] <arinov> yeah but its a gnome
• 2731[22:24:56] <arinov> so i thought gnome has own distros to testing phase and own community to bug report
• 2732[22:25:13] <arinov> but we have somehow it happends in debian stable, several years after
• 2733[22:25:24] <arinov> that pain i am talking about
• 2734[22:25:34] <annadane> i don't disagree
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• 2740[22:27:30] <arinov> i have no working player to see professional talks and i have 2 music players
• 2741[22:27:49] <arinov> so i am getting new stable again and that things is pissing me off
• 2742[22:27:58] <arinov> the next year i will get another one
• 2743[22:28:09] <arinov> and last 5 years i see the same
• 2744[22:28:29] <arinov> dont know, i need a psycologist
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• 2747[22:29:17] <annadane> i think if you're *repeatedly* running into problems it may be something you're doing wrong
• 2748[22:29:26] <annadane> i haven't seen everything you do so i can't vouch
• 2749[22:29:38] <annadane> this gnome music player thing is obviously not your fault and is a bug in debian, of course
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• 2751[22:30:37] <arinov> annadane: its about riuned expectations because we all press that checkbox about packages survival
• 2752[22:31:05] <humpled> what checkbox?
• 2753[22:31:13] <arinov> seems one man is sitting somewhere and say: guys, i need two music players in 10th
• 2754[22:31:14] <annadane> popcon, presumably
• 2755[22:31:21] <arinov> humpled: in installation dialog
• 2756[22:31:26] <humpled> ah
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• 2758[22:31:30] <arinov> - but we have problems in totem
• 2759[22:31:43] <arinov> - no matter, give it up, make two music instead
• 2760[22:32:20] <arinov> ok, i am calmed down about this, but i just dont want debian became arch to install it from base system manually
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• 2762[22:32:35] <greycat> I don't know the actual numbers for this, but I would guess that relatively few of the people who run "testing" and file bug reports on it also use your GNOME applications.
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• 2764[22:32:59] <greycat> That would be one explanation for why basic bugs like "gnome-sound-recorder crashes if you use it" didn't get caught earlier.
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• 2766[22:33:15] <greycat> or whatever the hell the name of this package was
• 2767[22:33:34] <arinov> greycat: you know what? the gnome guys made gnome-builder which allows easy to install and run latest gnome apps so everyone now can fix it and report it etc
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• 2769[22:34:17] <arinov> so i decided to try it, do you? i was impressed how good (as GUI) was polari i found in new version
• 2770[22:34:22] <arinov> and how slow it was
• 2771[22:34:31] <greycat> I don't use GNOME. Most of the people here don't use GNOME. I am not a Debian developer. Most of the people here are not Debian developers. Ranting at us achieves nothign.
• 2772[22:34:42] <arinov> ok
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• 2774[22:35:00] <arinov> if everywhere everyone does not use GNOME, why its default then
• 2775[22:35:04] <arinov> everywhere
• 2776[22:35:13] <annadane> software will always have bugs, people using Stable choose to live with one specific set of bugs so that they don't deal with new bugs in new versions
• 2777[22:35:15] <greycat> *plonk*
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• 2779[22:35:30] <greycat> Use whatever you like.
• 2780[22:35:35] <arinov> annadane: yep
• 2781[22:35:51] <annadane> severe bugs should, of course, be fixed in point releases
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• 2783[22:36:27] <arinov> of course
• 2784[22:36:42] <arinov> and there will be an updates
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• 2787[22:38:49] <arinov> its a dreams about ideal world
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• 2791[22:41:49] <arinov> that story about polari ends when i cloned the repo i saw it was on JS
• 2792[22:42:21] <humpled> !info polari
• 2793[22:42:28] <dpkg> polari: (Internet Relay Chat (IRC) client), section gnome, is optional. Version: 3.30.2-1 (sid), Packaged size: 405 kB, Installed size: 1945 kB
• 2794[22:42:33] <arinov> someone made JS irc client and put it into gnome defaul apps, the dark future comes
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• 2796[22:42:57] <arinov> humpled: it waits a minute to connect freenode and another 2 to join 5 channels
• 2797[22:43:02] <arinov> its js
• 2798[22:43:16] <humpled> polari is also the word for a kind of arcane queer culture jargon i think
• 2799[22:43:35] <arinov> i am sorry, i didnt knew
• 2800[22:43:48] <arinov> i heared about gimp problems in usa
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• 2803[22:44:52] <djohngo> How does Buster do power management, suspend/resume, etc?
• 2804[22:45:02] <djohngo> Is acpid still a thing?
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• 2807[22:47:17] <somiaj> ,v acpid
• 2808[22:47:18] *** Joins: mabar_ (~mabar_@replaced-ip)
• 2809[22:47:18] <judd> Package: acpid on amd64 -- jessie: 1:2.0.23-2; stretch: 1:2.0.28-1+b1; buster: 1:2.0.31-1; bullseye: 1:2.0.32-1; sid: 1:2.0.32-1
• 2810[22:47:31] <somiaj> djohngo: systemd does most of it now
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• 2823[22:57:36] <ghormoon> hi, is there some env variable for cusps server if you don't run one locally? i cant;t google up anything now ... something like PULSE_SERVER for pulseaudio.
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• 2825[22:58:55] <greycat> lp(1) talks about the LPDEST and PRINTER environment variables.
• 2826[22:59:19] <lupine> (I have the LPDEST speakers)
• 2827[22:59:49] <greycat> ... and then proceeds not to say *anything* about what goes in them.
• 2828[23:00:00] <greycat> Good job, Apple Inc.
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• 2833[23:04:16] <n_1-c_k> ghormoon, if you're able to install cups locally, you can have it forward printing to another cups elsewhere.
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• 2838[23:09:40] <xaeB5> i may have messed up my $PATH, any way to restore it to the default value?
• 2839[23:10:12] <greycat> How did you mess it up, exactly? Did you make permanent changes to files that set it during your login?
• 2840[23:10:25] <greycat> Or did you simply do PATH=... in one shell?
• 2841[23:10:51] <xaeB5> i did export PATH= in a shell
• 2842[23:11:01] <greycat> just close that shell and open a new one
• 2843[23:11:01] <xaeB5> and added a new directory
• 2844[23:11:58] <xaeB5> the problem is suddenly when i try to enter my python3 virtual environment (source bin/activate) i get an error that says "VIRTUAL_ENV: No such file or directory" and "PATH: No such file or directory" and PS1: No such file or directory. and i close this and open a new shell and get this message whenever i try to enter the virtualenvironment
• 2845[23:13:29] <greycat> So a new shell is fine, and then the problem starts when you dot in some virtual env file? If so, that points to the problem being in that virtual env file that you're dotting ni.
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• 2848[23:14:25] <xaeB5> yes that's right, everything is fine until i run the command "source bin/activate" which is usually how i get into my virtual env. i'll delete it and try again
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• 2860[23:17:58] <xaeB5> even after deleting virtualenvironment and creating a new one, the source command returns those messages so i messed something else up. lol
• 2861[23:18:05] <xaeB5> going to uninstall venv and reinstall it
• 2862[23:18:10] <greycat> what does "type source" say?
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• 2864[23:18:33] <xaeB5> source is a shell builtin
• 2865[23:18:37] <greycat> all right, that's normal.
• 2866[23:18:48] <greycat> so at least you didn't override the source command
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• 2868[23:18:53] <xaeB5> good
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• 2872[23:21:23] <ghormoon> n_1-c_k: i know, the point is that i have ton of containers on laptop (every chat app, every browser etc) has it's own and i don't want to run 30 cusps servers on the laptop
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